Feature Request/Suggestion - English (JP) Language option in Launcher

[LilimoLimomo]

Localization is, first and foremost, a business decision. Not an artistic one. It forces concepts like literary or artistic integrity to take a back seat to a flawed, biased perception that keeping in-line with the original vision will harm its marketability, when in reality, those who are playing it wouldn't mind because they're primarily playing it for the content itself.

If I were someone at Square-Enix who had the power to change how localization was done, I'd want to see some kind of research or statistical data to back up these claims. It's all too common for an individual to hop on a forum and announce that your average customer wants X, when in fact they've just assumed that other people align with their own preferences. For change to occur, they'll need to see something that convinces them that a pivot will improve their profits. That could be research data, it could be an outpouring of support for this claim on the forums, etc. But without something that feels tangible, they're unlikely to change direction or add new features.

If I were a gambling Lalafell, I'd place my money on Square-Enix having done some due diligence on the topics of translation and localization over their many years of offering goods and services across the globe; when there's money to be made, most multi-national corporations aren't simply winging it, and localization is a long-established concept that will have a measurable track record.

Regardless, with your interest in translation and localization, I bet you'd be interested in this story: https://www.polygon.com/2019/7/18/20...remy-blaustein

[Telkira]

If I were someone at Square-Enix who had the power to change how localization was done, I'd want to see some kind of research or statistical data to back up these claims. It's all too common for an individual to hop on a forum and announce that your average customer wants X, when in fact they've just assumed that other people align with their own preferences. For change to occur, they'll need to see something that convinces them that a pivot will improve their profits. That could be research data, it could be an outpouring of support for this claim on the forums, etc. But without something that feels tangible, they're unlikely to change direction or add new features.

I don't see how pivoting towards content parity between languages would harm their bottom line, nor do I see how implementing a secondary English language option that is simply a faithful translation of the JP script and devoid of all the fluff and revisions made by the localizers would make the game any less harmful.
I'd even (re)assert that the entire model of 'localizing' is built on a set of assumptions which are biased or fallacious. If a title is so unfit to be sold in a foreign market that it needs to be egregiously altered just to appease cultural sensibilities, then it probably shouldn't be sold in said market, but made available to those willing and able to partake via translating it, and nothing more.

Genuinely, if characters like Haurchefant were to have been released in all languages as he does in the JP script, there wouldn't be any backlash. People might express distaste, but certainly not anything more than the inclusion of Lalafells in the game already has, and continues to do so, with arguments about how the game itself sexualizes them, as they are adults.
I mentioned how the German and French audiences seem to be largely unaffected by this, considering how those scripts are largely consistent with the JP script.

If I were a gambling Lalafell, I'd place my money on Square-Enix having done some due diligence on the topics of translation and localization over their many years of offering goods and services across the globe; when there's money to be made, most multi-national corporations aren't simply winging it, and localization is a long-established concept that will have a measurable track record.

Regardless, with your interest in translation and localization, I bet you'd be interested in this story: https://www.polygon.com/2019/7/18/20...remy-blaustein

I think you're giving SE too much credit. I looked into the history of SE's approach to dealing with foreign markets and specifically with FFXI and FFXIV, much of the localization lead's (Koji Fox) positions were "the Japanese script is boring. What if I added this?" but going too far in the realm of content revisionism, to the point where whole dialog trees were being changed and characterization itself was being altered. You shouldn't want that, otherwise, why even bother allowing different regions to play together? Why not segregate/region lock since they'd be playing different stories?
One of the worst localizations I've ever seen was the recent Elyuden Chronicle game, and seeing discrepancies as egregious as those are in FFXIV genuinely makes me not want to play anymore.

[LilimoLimomo]

I don't see how pivoting towards content parity between languages would harm their bottom line

Adding what is in effect a new language to the game takes work that costs money, both for initially adding as well as updating over time.

If a title is so unfit to be sold in a foreign market that it needs to be egregiously altered just to appease cultural sensibilities, then it probably shouldn't be sold in said market

You aren't thinking like a business here. The question isn't one of moral or artistic sensibilities, it is as simple as "will this get us more money?" By adding a new market to sell your wares in and making your product accessible to that market, you add an additional source of income for your product.

If you want a financially motivated entity to make a change that you want, you need to be able to speak their language: the language of money.

[PorxiesRCute]

That's like telling people who don't like English dubs of anime to learn Japanese because English voiceovers don't mesh well with Japanese animation and writing.

I would and have also said the same to people who complain about anime dubs. I repeat: There are so many online resources to help you. And guess what? Immersion is the best way to learn a language, so playing FFXIV in Japanese will also help!

[Telkira]

I would and have also said the same to people who complain about anime dubs. I repeat: There are so many online resources to help you. And guess what? Immersion is the best way to learn a language, so playing FFXIV in Japanese will also help!

Believe me, I would love NOTHING more than to magically learn Japanese, but not everyone has that luxury.
And even then - it's not like I wouldn't care if I could just 'play it in Japanese' that there are content discrepancies. If I could, though, I suppose I wouldn't mind not having to talk to you and other entitled players who seem to take offense at a suggestion that wouldn't harm their experience.

And also, simply repeating what you said doesn't make automatically make it compelling, nor does it rebut my point about learning Japanese being more burdensome than implementing a second language option for English that's more in-line with the JP script, since SE charges $14 USD/mo just to play it and just needs to implement and test it.

Even then - if the game were faithfully translated, as opposed to being localized, you wouldn't complain. You would accept it for what it is, and enjoy it as it is and we wouldn't be having this conversation, because you'd still be a fan.
You wouldn't have to defend it because you wouldn't know you were missing anything, because that thing wouldn't have existed in the first place (and that's a good thing).

[Chajii]

Believe me, I would love NOTHING more than to magically learn Japanese, but not everyone has that luxury.
And even then - it's not like I wouldn't care if I could just 'play it in Japanese' that there are content discrepancies. If I could, though, I suppose I wouldn't mind not having to talk to you and other entitled players who seem to take offense at a suggestion that wouldn't harm their experience.

And also, simply repeating what you said doesn't make automatically make it compelling, nor does it rebut my point about learning Japanese being more burdensome than implementing a second language option for English that's more in-line with the JP script, since SE charges $14 USD/mo just to play it and just needs to implement and test it.

Even then - if the game were faithfully translated, as opposed to being localized, you wouldn't complain. You would accept it for what it is, and enjoy it as it is and we wouldn't be having this conversation, because you'd still be a fan.
You wouldn't have to defend it because you wouldn't know you were missing anything, because that thing wouldn't have existed in the first place (and that's a good thing).

This game has never promised to have a "faithful translation", there are only localisations, the $14 USD/mo is providing you the localisation, making another version would obviously costs more than what they are doing.

If you do want enjoy the game in its original form as much as possible, the easiest way is to learn Japanese, nowadays there are plenty of resources free online for learning, it isn't much of a luxury as you might think. You would also get to play with good voice acting from ARR if you were to rewind the story in Japanese.

[PorxiesRCute]

Believe me, I would love NOTHING more than to magically learn Japanese, but not everyone has that luxury.
And even then - it's not like I wouldn't care if I could just 'play it in Japanese' that there are content discrepancies. If I could, though, I suppose I wouldn't mind not having to talk to you and other entitled players who seem to take offense at a suggestion that wouldn't harm their experience.

And also, simply repeating what you said doesn't make automatically make it compelling, nor does it rebut my point about learning Japanese being more burdensome than implementing a second language option for English that's more in-line with the JP script, since SE charges $14 USD/mo just to play it and just needs to implement and test it.

Even then - if the game were faithfully translated, as opposed to being localized, you wouldn't complain. You would accept it for what it is, and enjoy it as it is and we wouldn't be having this conversation, because you'd still be a fan.
You wouldn't have to defend it because you wouldn't know you were missing anything, because that thing wouldn't have existed in the first place (and that's a good thing).

I'm not "taking offense", I'm saying it's never going to happen and offering you a suggestion for another way to get what you want.

The actual entitlement in this thread is coming from the person who wants their native language to have two dedicated translations when there are hundreds of languages that don't even have one.

[Telkira]

Bumping this. Given the contentious nature of 'localizing' something vs. translating, I feel that this thread is more important than ever.

[Akria]

Original Post.

Honestly, I agree with you, and I don't understand why you're getting so much pushback for this suggestion.

Not only is the English localization objectively harder to read, but a lot of their localization rewrites also often get in the way of story, and sometimes I feel like they're even disrespecting the work the writers have put in by changing things so drastically. I saw a comparison between a very important cutscene involving [SPOILER] Minfillia and the Warriors of Darkness [/SPOILER] and it completely blew my mind with just how messed up the localization rewriting was in that scene.

I'm lucky because I happen to speak French as fluently as I speak English, and after taking 2 years to get through the MSQ in English I've decided to re-do the story in French to see the difference and it's so much easier to read, it's not even funny.

No "ye olde French", no unintelligible Urianger, way less liberties taken, things are more to the point. I'm still in ARR patches currently, yet MSQ just feels so much easier to get through. I only wish that my fellow English-speaking players could have a similar experience.

I would have caught up with Endwalker in less than a year had I played in French from the start, since the main reason it took so long is that I had to parse my way through the absolute word salad that we have in English. It was giving me headaches and I often had to take breaks to even realize what was being said. My sub time would have literally been used more effectively, and it's something I regret a lot.

People keep suggesting to "learn Japanese if you hate it so much" and it's just not a fair thing to say at all. The idea that people should learn a whole other language just to get the accurate, easier to read version of the story is ridiculous.

Personally I just wish they never took such liberties altogether, yet here we are... So your suggestion is probably the best case scenario, especially considering that not that much work would need to be put in when it comes to the implementation.

However, this issue has always been quite bad, and not just with this game, but with tons of games from Japan. I hope I can one day learn Japanese so I don't have to gamble on middlemen interfering with the original work.

Thank you for posting about this, it was quite a good read. I will be sharing this around with my friends and see what they think. Have a good day/night wherever you are.

[AllenThyl]

Honestly, I agree with you, and I don't understand why you're getting so much pushback for this suggestion.

Not only is the English localization objectively harder to read, but a lot of their localization rewrites also often get in the way of story, and sometimes I feel like they're even disrespecting the work the writers have put in by changing things so drastically.

The voice of the mage soul in p9 in the JP dub is young and energetic, but old and smokey in EN. Absolutely baffling how people can defend this. This isn't even some "nuance" thing, this is straight up change in character.