Feature Request/Suggestion - English (JP) Language option in Launcher

[Eloah]

Not to sound like I am bashing OP, but I hate when people ask these types of questions. Thinking or acting like they are missing out on something. You're not.

No language is a direct 1:1 translation. That's why it's called localization.

Directly translating things would miss so many aspects of language. There are the subtleties, nuances, implications, body language, colloquialisms, social ques, and a whole bunch of other variables that affect how a language is perceived. Direct translations would miss all of those, and leave us with a far worse product.

The main reason some people perceive another language as "better" is just because they are accustom to those variables in their own language, and find them mundane. But, not knowing how they are in another language, people are able to place their own thoughts onto it. That's why there is the stereotype of German sounding angry, and French sounding sexy.

The Japanese audience has the same opinion about their version. They at times find their language dull, and prefer English, since, to them, it sounds cooler.

Think about those shirts that say random English words, or use random Kanji. They may look cool to someone who doesn't know, but it's still just a random word that makes no sense.

[Telkira]

Not to my knowledge. But some things are obvious from listening. Go watch the cutscene where Merlwyb is trying to parley with the Kobolds -- when she introduces herself, not only does she pronounce her own name incorrectly (Roegadyn W's should be pronounced as V's) you can actually hear her pause as she realizes she mispronounced it, and then continues on anyway.

Ahh, well that's certainly an issue with the EN voiceover, then. A criticism, one would say.

I don't have any complaints with the JP voiceover. The deliveries all sound perfectly appropriate and the voices match how I feel that their characters should.
I just want the text to properly represent what's being spoken, and not some re-telling where whole phrases may have been changed because someone thought I wouldn't like it otherwise.

No language is a direct 1:1 translation. That's why it's called localization.

Directly translating things would miss so many aspects of language. There are the subtleties, nuances, implications, body language, colloquialisms, social ques, and a whole bunch of other variables that affect how a language is perceived. Direct translations would miss all of those, and leave us with a far worse product

Translators have the task of finding the appropriate words, sentence/phrase structure, etc. to ensure that the substance of what's being spoken in one language is accurately interpreted, while being as true-to-form with the source material as possible.
Localization is more of a business practice that's on par with 'culturalization', wherein whole parts of the source material in order to appeal to a separate market. Notions of artistic and literary integrity, such as consistency between versions, are secondary considerations, if that at all.

You're also wrong, because there are direct translations (official and unofficial) for games, anime, manga, etc. that remain faithful to, if not wholly consistent with, the content of the source material while also conveying the necessary, if not all, linguistic nuances contained therein.

If you doubt this, just take a look at the vast library of unofficial translations for manga and anime. Many fansub projects are superior to official subs because they actually remain consistent with the source material, and that quality of it reflects clearly on the audience.
One of the best examples out there is the unofficial Mother 3 fan translation. It's so good that I'd prefer to just have that than see what Nintendo's censors would do if they tried to 'sanitize' it for the West. It's so good because it remains faithful, and doesn't try to trick the player into thinking it's not a JRPG.
The consistent positive reception that these translated products have is something that localization/culturalization defenders and apologists can't seem to reconcile, while localizations continue to remain criticized by those like me.

My main issue with FFXIV's EN localization is that it does more than what is necessary, bleeding into excess, to convey what's actually being said in Japanese, to the point where it out-flat revises the content, and by definition that's something that ought to be avoided.
It adds unnecessary flavor that was not there in the original, so it can be argued that it's effectively depriving Japanese players of that too while also giving Western players more than what is necessary, but you're unlikely to see them claim that because they have no issues with their native language.

The main reason some people perceive another language as "better" is just because they are accustom to those variables in their own language, and find them mundane. But, not knowing how they are in another language, people are able to place their own thoughts onto it. That's why there is the stereotype of German sounding angry, and French sounding sexy.

That's...one heavy presumption, just like your opening sentence about saying that I'm 'not missing anything'.

The reason why I prefer Japanese translations for things like video games and anime is because I'm able to know exactly how to feel based on the other components of the medium, like the tone and mood established established by the game or anime. In my view, plastering localized textual content in a JRPG or English voiceovers in anime feels out-of-place because the actual content was not created with these in mind. It always feels tacked on, and with regard to FFXIV, the EN text tends to just add more bloat to read without substance, while the Japanese content is usually more 'to-the-point'.

I also never found German to sound aggressive, or French to sound 'sexy'. Those are stereotypes whose origins originate from cultural contexts within American or English culture, if anything.

[Eloah]

stuff

I'm not gonna get into a debate. But this just boils down to the usual statement of, "the book was better". So let's ask ourselves, why was the book better? And just because the book was better, does that mean the movie sucked? Those answers are exactly the same over any dub debate.

[Telkira]

I'm not gonna get into a debate. But this just boils down to the usual statement of, "the book was better". So let's ask ourselves, why was the book better? And just because the book was better, does that mean the movie sucked? Those answers are exactly the same over any dub debate.

I don't think that analogy works, but I get your point.

[Emitans]

If you want to play with the Japanese script, just play in Japanese. They already wrote it.

[Telkira]

If you want to play with the Japanese script, just play in Japanese. They already wrote it.

Players wouldn't mind having a second English language option which is simply a direct translation of the Japanese content.

Many players also believe that the Japanese script is so much better than the English localization, which is not without flaws.

Why should that experience be blockaded by a language barrier? Especially when the translation work has already been done, it just needs to be tested and implemented?

Why some people are not supportive of this is beyond me, especially when the localized option would still be there for you to enjoy.

[PorxiesRCute]

Players wouldn't mind having a second English language option which is simply a direct translation of the Japanese content.

Many players also believe that the Japanese script is so much better than the English localization, which is not without flaws.

Why should that experience be blockaded by a language barrier? Especially when the translation work has already been done, it just needs to be tested and implemented?

Why some people are not supportive of this is beyond me, especially when the localized option would still be there for you to enjoy.

So learn Japanese. There are so many online resources to help you. And guess what? Immersion is the best way to learn a language, so playing FFXIV in Japanese will also help! FFXIV in Japanese doesn't even have the Ye Olde Timey dialect that the English version does.

Why is it only English speakers who have this kind of entitlement? Native Spanish speakers, Portuguese speakers, Chinese speakers outside of China, Russians, Ukrainians, speakers of every other European language besides French/German/English, Arabic speakers, Africans, etc etc etc. play this game in their second and third languages every single day.

[Telkira]

Bumping this back up

[LilimoLimomo]

I agree with some of OP's criticisms of the localization, especially the massive changes in actual narrative and meaning that seem to have been more common when Koji Fox was managing localization. Thankfully, things have improved since then, with translations straying less from the source material.

I don't think the answer is to create an entirely additional translation that attempts to be direct. Not only is that a massive undertaking, but in many cases there simply isn't a 1-to-1 translation because that's how complex and varied different languages are. Which is the entire reason why localization exists in the first place.

I think the optimal way forward is just to express to CBU3 and the localization team that players (however may of us are in this camp) appreciate a translation that takes as few liberties as possible. Not only has the localization team demonstrated that they are capable of moving closer to this, but it's by far the solution that you're most likely to get CBU3 to agree to.

[Telkira]

So learn Japanese.

If learning a whole language were more feasible than adding a separate language option that's more in-line and faithful to the canon content, I wouldn't have made this post. What's wrong with accommodating players who like the game, its lore, characters, etc. but not the unnecessary flavor and revisionism that comes with the EN localization? That's like telling people who don't like English dubs of anime to learn Japanese because English voiceovers don't mesh well with Japanese animation and writing. JRPGs are no different.

Why is it only English speakers who have this kind of entitlement? Native Spanish speakers, Portuguese speakers, Chinese speakers outside of China, Russians, Ukrainians, speakers of every other European language besides French/German/English, Arabic speakers, Africans, etc etc etc. play this game in their second and third languages every single day.

I would love it if the game were translated into all of these languages! What are you talking about?
And a lot of the revisionism you see in the EN copy of the game simply isn't present in the German and French versions, which are more or less faithfully translated from the JP script, not fully but mostly, with none of the unnecessary fluff you see in the EN script.

What I want is for the EN script to be treated like the French or German scripts.

I don't think the answer is to create an entirely additional translation that attempts to be direct. Not only is that a massive undertaking, but in many cases there simply isn't a 1-to-1 translation because that's how complex and varied different languages are. Which is the entire reason why localization exists in the first place.

I think the optimal way forward is just to express to CBU3 and the localization team that players (however may of us are in this camp) appreciate a translation that takes as few liberties as possible. Not only has the localization team demonstrated that they are capable of moving closer to this, but it's by far the solution that you're most likely to get CBU3 to agree to.

I think it's more feasible than people realize, since a lot of the work that goes into it has already been done, it just needs to be tested and implemented. There are a lot of issues with localization over translating, in that liberties are often taken where they shouldn't be which is tantamount to revisionism. FFXIV, first and foremost, is a Japanese game, written, developed, and designed for the Japanese market. There are all sorts of cultural nuances that go into that, you can't just give all the characters 'ye olde english' accents and staff English VAs and expect that to hide the fact that you're playing a JRPG.
A lot of it just doesn't flow, so the Localizers take lots of creative liberties that many players (such as myself) find unnecessary or even offensive, such as re-writing a whole character because they don't want to offend more sensitive players. That is literally censorship, and I don't trust localizers to strike a healthy balance between ensuring that the vision is faithfully carried over without allowing their own biases and prejudices to corrupt the vision.

Localization is, first and foremost, a business decision. Not an artistic one. It forces concepts like literary or artistic integrity to take a back seat to a flawed, biased perception that keeping in-line with the original vision will harm its marketability, when in reality, those who are playing it wouldn't mind because they're primarily playing it for the content itself.