Results 1 to 10 of 61

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Player
    Telkira's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2023
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    171
    Character
    Aknora Telkira
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Chajii View Post
    This game has never promised to have a "faithful translation", there are only localisations, the $14 USD/mo is providing you the localisation, making another version would obviously costs more than what they are doing.
    Quote Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo View Post
    Adding what is in effect a new language to the game takes work that costs money, both for initially adding as well as updating over time.
    You aren't thinking like a business here. The question isn't one of moral or artistic sensibilities, it is as simple as "will this get us more money?" By adding a new market to sell your wares in and making your product accessible to that market, you add an additional source of income for your product.

    If you want a financially motivated entity to make a change that you want, you need to be able to speak their language: the language of money.
    I don't think that adding a second English language option would really drive into any expenses. The EN localization team has been very transparent at Fanfests, in blogs, interviews, etc. exactly how their process goes, and believe me when I say it, much of the work for what I'm suggesting has already been done.

    More work has to be done in choosing what to revise/rewrite to make it more consistent with what they've already done, arguably, localization is more expensive than faithfully translating, which explains why the German and French languages are more consistent with the Japanese script and face far less revisions, and what revisions are there are less egregious, and having what is basically just an English translation of the canon script might be helpful for ensuring that such contents are accurately and faithfully preserved in the coming years when SE finally decides to begin winding down the game's production.

    It would make money because it would be giving players who do not like all of the revisions an option that's more accessible than learning Japanese. It would make players less likely to not renew their sub, and perhaps even contribute to a sense of value because it would instill the perception that SE cares about their input/views, and would move to accommodate their preferences.

    I don't see how accommodating a preference that's well within their abilities is somehow something to argue against. It's not going to drive up costs, it's not going to divert resources away from other things. At worst, players would probably just have to wait a little bit longer for content releases, since the type of workload I'm suggesting is on par with QA testers launching the game in different languages with different cutscene/audio options set in the game options. You ever notice how some people load in faster than others in Praetorium? That's a biproduct of that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chajii View Post
    If you do want enjoy the game in its original form as much as possible, the easiest way is to learn Japanese, nowadays there are plenty of resources free online for learning, it isn't much of a luxury as you might think.
    It's not about having 'luxury', and I've looked into many of those. Actually learning a language is more complicated than just memorizing a bunch of words and their appropriate context, which is what a lot of these resources only teach.
    I've already explained in previous posts that learning a second language is not a feasible ask for a lot of people, otherwise, I would have done so, or better yet, the need for localizing the game would be drastically reduced. And even then - it's a massive time and effort investment that a lot of people simply do not have the luxury of affording.

    It's also not a sound rebuttal to what I'm suggesting, since it's less work on the devs to put out a language option that's more in-line with the source material than it is for those who lack the time to pick up a second language. And even if I did, I'd still be a vocal proponent of consistency that transcends the language barrier, as opposed to different languages having characters be re-written to fulfill a projected preference on the part of the localizers. It's not like they're adding a whole new language option to the game, either, it's still English.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chajii View Post
    You would also get to play with good voice acting from ARR if you were to rewind the story in Japanese.
    I already play it with Japanese cutscene audio/dialog. Many people seem to like the EN voiceover, I don't. The VAs are all probably very lovely people and I wish them the best, but I'm not a fan of their performance in FFXIV. It's a JRPG, first and foremost.

    Quote Originally Posted by PorxiesRCute View Post
    The actual entitlement in this thread is coming from the person who wants their native language to have two dedicated translations when there are hundreds of languages that don't even have one.
    You do realize that English is the only language option with the most amount of revisions that literally do not exist in other languages of the game, right? If you talk to most NPCs, view item descriptions, or read various other things in German or French and compare it against a machine translation of the Japanese script, you'll find that it's more consistent in that regard than it is in English, so calling me entitled for being displeased with that is a bit obtuse.
    I don't see why you should be bothered. And yes, you are arguing in bad-faith like you're taking offense to the mere suggestion.
    (3)
    Last edited by Telkira; 09-11-2024 at 10:56 AM.

  2. #2
    Player
    PorxiesRCute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    313
    Character
    Nekhii Qestir
    World
    Kraken
    Main Class
    Botanist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Telkira View Post
    I don't think that adding a second English language option would really drive into any expenses. The EN localization team has been very transparent at Fanfests, in blogs, interviews, etc. exactly how their process goes, and believe me when I say it, much of the work for what I'm suggesting has already been done.
    Right. It would cost no money to pay the writers to write an additional script, nor to pay the voice actors to record twice as much dialogue. That would just be free.

    It's not about having 'luxury', and I've looked into many of those. Actually learning a language is more complicated than just memorizing a bunch of words and their appropriate context, which is what a lot of these resources only teach.
    Correct: As I mentioned before, you also need immersion. Which playing a video game in your target language provides. As does reading books and watching TV shows. Sorry there's no magic button to make you fluent without effort.

    You do realize that English is the only language option with the most amount of revisions that literally do not exist in other languages of the game, right? If you talk to most NPCs, view item descriptions, or read various other things in German or French and compare it against a machine translation of the Japanese script, you'll find that it's more consistent in that regard than it is in English, so calling me entitled for being displeased with that is a bit obtuse.
    I don't see why you should be bothered.
    I'm literally not "bothered". If they chose to offer a second English translation, or chose to revise their translating style going forward, I wouldn't really care. I don't actively want it to not happen, I just recognize the reality that it won't, and I'm telling you why your "suggestion" is pie-in-the-sky wishing.

    And yes, you are arguing in bad-faith like you're taking offense to the mere suggestion.
    Ah, yes, "this isn't going to happen" is bad faith, but "writing two scripts and paying for twice as much voice work wouldn't incur any extra costs" isn't. Makes sense.
    (4)

  3. #3
    Player
    Telkira's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2023
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    171
    Character
    Aknora Telkira
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by PorxiesRCute View Post
    Right. It would cost no money to pay the writers to write an additional script, nor to pay the voice actors to record twice as much dialogue. That would just be free.
    If you had paid any attention to my post, you'd know that much of the work was already done in translating the JP script, text, etc. to English.
    Also, no additional voice lines would need to be recorded. Players would just launch the game with JP voiceover/cutscene audio, since it would be transcribed from that content anyway.
    Of course there's expense to be had in implementing this, but compared to adding a whole new language to the mix, it's a drop in the bucket, especially when they already test around these specific parameters for players who choose to play with specific settings. And considering that people are paying $14USD/mo to play this game, they certainly have the capital. That's more than what can be said about most MMOs.

    Quote Originally Posted by PorxiesRCute View Post
    Correct: As I mentioned before, you also need immersion. Which playing a video game in your target language provides. As does reading books and watching TV shows. Sorry there's no magic button to make you fluent without effort.
    Telling people who are dissatisfied with the localization to just 'learn Japanese' is not a valid rebuttal to their criticisms, nor is it a valid dismissal of suggestions for how their criticisms can be accommodated (such as adding a separate EN language option).

    Quote Originally Posted by PorxiesRCute View Post
    I'm literally not "bothered". If they chose to offer a second English translation, or chose to revise their translating style going forward, I wouldn't really care. I don't actively want it to not happen, I just recognize the reality that it won't, and I'm telling you why your "suggestion" is pie-in-the-sky wishing.
    You're arguing in bad-faith by saying just 'learn Japanese' and insulting me by calling me entitled. People tend to do that when they're bothered about something.
    As for this being a 'pie in the sky' dream, I've seen them make changes in response to user feedback/requests. This is definitely feasible and do-able, and I won't stop arguing in favor of this for as long I intend to continue playing, because there's no way that this could harm anybody's experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by PorxiesRCute View Post
    Ah, yes, "this isn't going to happen" is bad faith, but "writing two scripts and paying for twice as much voice work wouldn't incur any extra costs" isn't. Makes sense.
    See above. No additional lines would need to be recorded because it'd already be representative of the Japanese voiceover content, just translated rather than 'localized'.

    Look I'll even attach a screenshot I found on Imgur.



    By the way, this setting isn't just some tertiary feature.
    Part of my argument about it being not outside the range of cost is because they already have to test features associated with this, such as the timing of spoken dialog in voiced cutscenes, in-action voiced dialog blurbs, and other things to make sure that it's properly timed (even though the spoken audio might not align properly with the subtitles).

    Having a separate English option would simply revise this content to align not only with this, but also with other aspects of the JP script/text content.
    (3)

  4. #4
    Player
    LilimoLimomo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2023
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    1,134
    Character
    Lilimo Limomo
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Telkira View Post
    I don't think that adding a second English language option would really drive into any expenses.
    If it was actually free to provide then you'd already be getting it, as that would improve the quality and desirability of the product at no cost to the company. The fact that it's not already in the product demonstrates that there's a meaningful associated cost.
    (5)

  5. #5
    Player
    Chajii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2024
    Location
    リムサ・ロミンサ
    Posts
    139
    Character
    Asklepiooze Gazel
    World
    Belias
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Telkira View Post
    You ever notice how some people load in faster than others in Praetorium? That's a biproduct of that.
    In total the difference between the shortest (JP) and the longest (EN) is only about a minute.

    Quote Originally Posted by Telkira View Post
    Actually learning a language is more complicated than just memorizing a bunch of words and their appropriate context, which is what a lot of these resources only teach.
    Of course learning a language is more than just memorising stuff, you would also have to interact with the language regularly such as reading books, listening to music and watching videos in the targeted language, learning resources are only there to help you understand the language, you have to build your vocabulary bank and such through other means.

    Quote Originally Posted by Telkira View Post
    You do realize that English is the only language option with the most amount of revisions that literally do not exist in other languages of the game, right? If you talk to most NPCs, view item descriptions, or read various other things in German or French and compare it against a machine translation of the Japanese script, you'll find that it's more consistent in that regard than it is in English.
    If it is as you stated that German and French localisations are better in your opinion, consider trying those 2 languages as they are easier than learning Japanese to a English speaker.

    Quote Originally Posted by Telkira View Post
    Telling people who are dissatisfied with the localization to just 'learn Japanese' is not a valid rebuttal to their criticisms, nor is it a valid dismissal of suggestions for how their criticisms can be accommodated (such as adding a separate EN language option).
    If you are dissatisfied with the localisation, you could ask for improvement of the localisation (such as why the tooltips of Sacred Soil and Passage of Arms can't be written normally as 10% mitigation like other 3 languages).

    Telling people to 'learn Japanese' is simply a suggestion, I could even suggest a person that is satisfied with the EN localisation to learn Japanese and suggest them to try out the game in JP; suggesting people to try the game in JP (with the step of learning Japanese) is merely giving an option.

    You specifically might not consider it as worthy of the effort you have to put in but some others might actually consider it as a good reason to start learning a language (I am mentioning this because you stated that you yourself are already playing in JP, hence this suggestion wouldn't apply to you specifically).
    (1)
    転化の「回復魔法20%上昇」を「回復効果20%上昇」にしてくださいお願いします!
    Please change the "increases healing magic potency by 20%" of Dissipation into "increases HP recovery via healing actions by 20%"!

  6. #6
    Player
    Telkira's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2023
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    171
    Character
    Aknora Telkira
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo View Post
    If it was actually free to provide then you'd already be getting it, as that would improve the quality and desirability of the product at no cost to the company. The fact that it's not already in the product demonstrates that there's a meaningful associated cost.
    A lot of other features could be described just the same way, such as corrections to various parts of the game's text content, many of which do get posted here, meet the criteria of a defect, but do not get fixed, at least not until much later or until the right person viewing the thread takes a look and escalates it.

    What I'm providing is feedback that - hopefully - will drive some sort of internal discussion and change, because it would make the game better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chajii View Post
    In total the difference between the shortest (JP) and the longest (EN) is only about a minute.
    It's a little bit longer than that, but it's still very much noticeable. And given how literally nobody likes being forced to sit thru the same cutscenes over and over, it still makes it go a tad faster when everyone runs it with that setting enabled.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chajii View Post
    Of course learning a language is more than just memorising stuff, you would also have to interact with the language regularly such as reading books, listening to music and watching videos in the targeted language, learning resources are only there to help you understand the language, you have to build your vocabulary bank and such through other means.
    Right - but even with all of that, it's still a difficult task for a lot of people. If SE could help bridge that gap by accommodating these preferences, then it would be astronomical in helping appeal to fans who want a faithful, authentic experience while also garnering good will with said fans.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chajii View Post
    If you are dissatisfied with the localisation, you could ask for improvement of the localisation (such as why the tooltips of Sacred Soil and Passage of Arms can't be written normally as 10% mitigation like other 3 languages).
    I would, but simply having a translation would solve that issue along with many others, like the ones in my OP. What I'm suggesting would instill a philosophy of "content consistency" so that way these functional aspects, like spell/weaponskill/ability descriptions being consistent across languages, and not fluffed up in English.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chajii View Post
    Telling people to 'learn Japanese' is simply a suggestion, I could even suggest a person that is satisfied with the EN localisation to learn Japanese and suggest them to try out the game in JP; suggesting people to try the game in JP (with the step of learning Japanese) is merely giving an option.
    It's not 'just a suggestion', though, especially when it's done in bad faith.
    Any time someone has issues with the way Japanese media is localized, those who are content with it just dismiss their criticisms with 'learn japanese' instead of actually sitting there and thinking "okay, this is different and that may be a problem" and refusing to think about the art that they consume as being flawed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chajii View Post
    You specifically might not consider it as worthy of the effort you have to put in but some others might actually consider it as a good reason to start learning a language (I am mentioning this because you stated that you yourself are already playing in JP, hence this suggestion wouldn't apply to you specifically).
    Learning Japanese is something that I would like to do, believe me, but as I've said before, not everyone has the luxury of just being able to pick up and learn a whole new manner of communication. It's just not feasible for most people, when it's more than feasible for SE to diversify their offerings to give people content that is consistent across the board.
    (4)

  7. #7
    Player
    AmiableApkallu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2021
    Posts
    1,020
    Character
    Tatanpa Nononpa
    World
    Zalera
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Telkira View Post
    If SE could help bridge that gap by accommodating these preferences, then it would be astronomical in helping appeal to fans who want a faithful, authentic experience while also garnering good will with said fans.
    You've not experienced FFXIV until you've played it in the original Klingon.
    (2)