because of duty support is slightly more difficult content even possible?

[Acelyn]

Hearing Yoshi-P mention that the game is too easy and wanting to bring a semblance of struggle back sorta amped me up but then i thought about trust/duty support.

I dont use trust, theyre slow and make things boring and running with people is way more fun because you never know what kinda players youll be paired up with and what that means for the run.

but alot of dungeons have been redone to make them work with the trust, so how will they handle that in the future, im guessing they cant go to far because the trust arent smart enough to handle certain mechanics.

will they have 2 versions of dungeons instead, a simple trust version and another one for live players?

[Oizen]

We haven't really heard anything beyond what you've already stated. That said, I wouldn't expect much. There's a lot of barriers that prevent normal content from being made harder, and I don't think they've even addressed why they think the game is too easy outside of that statement. We haven't been given any specifics, so until more is said, just take it as the usual Yoshida marketing line to hype Dawntrail and nothing more.

[Jeeqbit]

alot of dungeons have been redone to make them work with the trust, so how will they handle that in the future, im guessing they cant go to far because the trust arent smart enough to handle certain mechanics.

I actually don't agree with you. They mostly didn't make the dungeons easier because "trusts can't handle it", but because they wanted them to be intuitive/obvious to new players.

Let me give you some examples. The revamped version of Aetherochemical Research Facility's last boss wipes a lot of parties. I get it in-progress sometimes, like the other day.

Another example is all of the bosses in Ktisis Hyperboreia. Analyzing where the safe spot is on the first boss is not entirely obvious to people who've never done it with Duty Support and at first I was trying to understand what the NPCs were doing. The second boss usually racks up vulns on people at least and the last boss often does result in full wipes or a lot of deaths. Yet Duty Support does it flawlessly!

Another example is The Mothercrystal trial. If you're like me, you farmed the extreme version and find it easy, but a lot of people struggled even with Duty Support and then make the people in trial roulette struggle as well, with constant deaths throughout the trial usually.

So, no, it's not that Duty Support can't do difficult mechanics. It's just that SE was trying to make the mechanics "obvious" with a lot of telegraphing, whereas 2.0 and 3.0 design was "figure out the mechanics yourself" (thus, most new players did not figure them out and just died or ate vulns).

Speaking of that, they did specifically reference that they wanted to take it back to "figure out the mechanics yourself". It feels a bit late to do that with dungeons now, but they can sure do it with alliance raids, normal raids and other content like that.

will they have 2 versions of dungeons instead, a simple trust version and another one for live players?

It is called variant and criterion.

[Sotaris]

Duty support is great. It’s little slower but I’ve used it a great deal for the last few jobs 80-90 over long queues.

It’s not optimal but it’s better than nothing.

[Azlith]

Yoshi-P never said that content would be made to be more difficult in Dawntrail. This is something that a ton of people just assumed he meant when he said that he wanted to add a bit more "stress" to the game. What that actually turns out to mean (which could be anything like needing higher ilvl to meet a dmg check for example) we will just have to wait and see.

Also even if some things do get harder I wouldn't expect ANYTHING relating to the MSQ to be made any harder at all. This would upset the huge number of players who only sub once a year to play their ff14 story content.

[TaleraRistain]

You don't do the dungeons with trusts but you're somehow making generalizations on what they can and can't do? They can do some pretty sophisticated things. The dungeons weren't dumbed down. They were modified to be more intuitive for new players so they didn't have to try to interpret many of the archaic and vague triggers they used to contain. Also to introduce some of those indicators earlier so sprouts would be familiar with them in future content.

[Fawkes]

Trusts don't have to be smart, they're programmed alongside the dungeon mechanics.

They did talk about some mechanics not working with squadrons, like the Goobbue in Lost City of Amdapor that eats you. But that's more to do with the content not being made with the NPCs in mind, and I think squadrons AI is mostly just "attack what the player is attacking". I don't think it applies to trusts.

[Azlith]

The dungeons weren't dumbed down. They were modified to be more intuitive for new players so they didn't have to try to interpret many of the archaic and vague triggers they used to contain.

It can be argued that making something more intuitive is, by virtue of it being easier to understand, "dumbing down". If you no longer need to learn through trial and error and instead have giant orange circles of death appear for every mechanic then yes things have been "dumbed down"

[TaleraRistain]

It can be argued that making something more intuitive is, by virtue of it being easier to understand, "dumbing down". If you no longer need to learn through trial and error and instead have giant orange circles of death appear for every mechanic then yes things have been "dumbed down"

Have you done the Rhitahtyn instance? There are plenty of things telegraphed in more familiar ways there and that instance is definitely not dumbed down. It has teeth.

[Azlith]

Have you done the Rhitahtyn instance? There are plenty of things telegraphed in more familiar ways there and that instance is definitely not dumbed down. It has teeth.

I don't think you understood my post. I wasn't making an argument for whether or not some specific thing in the game was made to be easier or harder with the reworks for the trust system. I also agree that the trust system didn't always make things easier. I was simply stating that if you make something more intuitive then it has been, by nature, "dumbed down". Side note, have you done keeper of the lake since the rework? that was made considerably easier to read and therefore a lot easier to know what to do. For every bit of content that was made "harder" or just as difficult by the rework there is another bit of content that was made considerably easier. I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing in general, it is simply an observation and it just is what it is.