Boring design

[rawker]

What do those gimmicks mean in terms of role identity?

You always claim that you hate that removed true pets from the game (I feel you, I was a MCH main with a pet lite to manage). If you remove us our current non support options, then what's left? Not that our current support actually matters anyway to begin with, i'll grant you that, but that just goes to show in which sorry state this role has been since ShB got introduced.

Don't get me wrong. I only responded to a hypothetical situation where Troubadour/Tactician/Shield Samba are to be removed should raidwide mitigation has become healer-exclusive. That's why I also mentioned that BRD should be excluded since of all the 3 Ranged DPS, BRD has been the party buffer. It's not that I would like those removed.

[Rozeee]

-snip-

Unfortunately p.ranged is kind of stuck in the same design purgatory that healer exists in. They removed some of the older complexities that your job offered (Mage's and Army's restoring MP and TP) but didn't put anything in its place. So now the only defining characteristic for p.ranged is free mobility. It would be fine if encounters actually take advantage of this (think T7 Renaud kiting), but in EW savage you're just a 1% bonus doing the same thing a caster does but on the left side instead. Knowing the job changes recently though, you'll probably get another apex arrow finisher or empyreal arrow vfx update and they'll call it a day.

[ty_taurus]

They can focus more on their intended gimmicks: DNC with their partners, MCH with their Automatons, BRDs, I think, should be the exception.

Personally, I wish physical ranged DPS focused more on their main strength which is mobility. Back in Ramuh EX, having a bard was very important because they could very easily move from the edge of the arena into the center without disrupting their DPS. Why this was so important was because being all the way at the edge of the arena allowed them to bait every instance of charm while the rest of the team didn't have to worry about their positioning in that regard. Why aren't fights designed to have mechanics where having one person bait something while on the move? Like what if there was an object that you could pick up or pass to a party member simply by moving over it/them, and regularly, the boss will target that with chasing AOEs. If it gets hit, it explodes dealing massive damage to the party, but the physical ranged DPS can pick it up and run it around, avoiding the AOEs without dropping DPS. That would be something catered especially to their strength in the fight itself.

[rawker]

Personally, I wish physical ranged DPS focused more on their main strength which is mobility. Back in Ramuh EX, having a bard was very important because they could very easily move from the edge of the arena into the center without disrupting their DPS. Why this was so important was because being all the way at the edge of the arena allowed them to bait every instance of charm while the rest of the team didn't have to worry about their positioning in that regard. Why aren't fights designed to have mechanics where having one person bait something while on the move? Like what if there was an object that you could pick up or pass to a party member simply by moving over it/them, and regularly, the boss will target that with chasing AOEs. If it gets hit, it explodes dealing massive damage to the party, but the physical ranged DPS can pick it up and run it around, avoiding the AOEs without dropping DPS. That would be something catered especially to their strength in the fight itself.

This can only be done when the boss' hitbox no longer cover the entire arena.. As we speak, melees are punching the air so the so-called mobility advantages of ranged physical is no more than a myth

[Aravell]

Personally, I wish physical ranged DPS focused more on their main strength which is mobility. Back in Ramuh EX, having a bard was very important because they could very easily move from the edge of the arena into the center without disrupting their DPS. Why this was so important was because being all the way at the edge of the arena allowed them to bait every instance of charm while the rest of the team didn't have to worry about their positioning in that regard. Why aren't fights designed to have mechanics where having one person bait something while on the move? Like what if there was an object that you could pick up or pass to a party member simply by moving over it/them, and regularly, the boss will target that with chasing AOEs. If it gets hit, it explodes dealing massive damage to the party, but the physical ranged DPS can pick it up and run it around, avoiding the AOEs without dropping DPS. That would be something catered especially to their strength in the fight itself.

I think the last fight that made use of the mobility of a physical ranged was O11S with the missile baits during Pantokrator 2.

But then again, most people didn't understand the mechanic and just made the PLD disengage and invuln the missiles.

[Absurdity]

I think the last fight that made use of the mobility of a physical ranged was O11S with the missile baits during Pantokrator 2.

But then again, most people didn't understand the mechanic and just made the PLD disengage and invuln the missiles.

E1S for proximity AoE baiting is the last I can remember. Doesn't exactly help that every time we get these mechanics half the phys ranged throw a fit because they can't be bothered to actually make use of their job mobility.

Then you stand there as a tank, having to bait AoEs away from the boss, with 2 phys ranged in the party, and you just question why you bring those low budget casters in the first place.

[Supersnow845]

E1S for proximity AoE baiting is the last I can remember. Doesn't exactly help that every time we get these mechanics half the phys ranged throw a fit because they can't be bothered to actually make use of their job mobility.

Then you stand there as a tank, having to bait AoEs away from the boss, with 2 phys ranged in the party, and you just question why you bring those low budget casters in the first place.

Do you mean Gaia’s relativities because you always baited with the tanks

I can’t think of anything in 12 where the phys ranged could bait anything

[Aravell]

E1S for proximity AoE baiting is the last I can remember. Doesn't exactly help that every time we get these mechanics half the phys ranged throw a fit because they can't be bothered to actually make use of their job mobility.

Then you stand there as a tank, having to bait AoEs away from the boss, with 2 phys ranged in the party, and you just question why you bring those low budget casters in the first place.

If you're talking about the Dimensional Shift baits, all 4 ranged have to do that, so it's not exactly something that makes use of the physical ranged in particular.

I'm more talking about stuff like the aforementioned missile bait during Pantokrator 2 or the Mustard Bomb tether also in O11S that the physical ranged can take without losing damage and just get covered by the PLD for the Atomic Ray after. Stuff that makes use of their free mobility to make mechanics less annoying for others.

[aiqa]

If you're talking about the Dimensional Shift baits, all 4 ranged have to do that, so it's not exactly something that makes use of the physical ranged in particular.

I'm more talking about stuff like the aforementioned missile bait during Pantokrator 2 or the Mustard Bomb tether also in O11S that the physical ranged can take without losing damage and just get covered by the PLD for the Atomic Ray after. Stuff that makes use of their free mobility to make mechanics less annoying for others.

How often can we realistically expect mechanics that heavily favour specifically physical ranged role. It seems highly improbable to me those will get added to any significant number of encounters.

[Supersnow845]

How often can we realistically expect mechanics that heavily favour specifically physical ranged role. It seems highly improbable to me those will get added to any significant number of encounters.

I mean why not, the way square balances the DPS encourages you to always bring at least 1, why not have mechanics that uniquely challenge each of the 3 DPS subtypes rather than just lumping them in as collective “DPS” which shoves casters and phys ranged to the side because when there is no unique mechanics for roles you lose incentive to bring anything besides melee outside of the 5% bonus which the melees are so much stronger than everyone else now the 5% is more relevant to the healers mitigation plan than your damage anyway