Boring design

[Supersnow845]

Let's not pretend that shake it off and divine veil, even with the initial heal, were particularly useful against any bleedwide in abyssos. Let's also not pretend that dark knight wasn't insanely overtuned defensively and offensively in asphodelos and abyssos. This seems a bit like a lack of communication or forethought between the raid and job design teams. That said, the reluctance on the dev's part to be perceived to nerf things does not help at all, especially with the all comps are viable/accessibility angle they seem to have adopted. I am also skeptical that utility heavy bursty tanks can be appropriately balanced with how much swing raid buff stacking carries.

Benewhetting only really applies during dungeons, which does not seem to be the focus of balancing. Nonetheless I would rather nascent put back to shb and benewhetting changed to just temphp and mit or shield and mit. edit: To say the quiet part aloud, no matter which tank you have, they shouldn't be struggling in any way shape or form in expert dungeons.

That’s the point though, the raidwide mitigations were meant to have upsides and downsides

The magical mitigations are explicitly designed to be better at bleedwides and multihit raidwides (like terminal relativity), while the shields are Omni mitigation that doesn’t suffer from diminishing returns but once they crack they are gone

The only real problem with the communication was block not blocking bleeds so PLD just got shredded, DRK Having higher defence at the expense of sustain and having the arguably weaker type of mitigation is totally fine, it’s having upsides and downsides for different tanks

Benewhetting only applies in dungeons but bloodwhetting still heals for 1000 healer potency per activation of bloodwhetting plus all its other heals, it’s not like it’s remotely balanced (the magic healing combo combined with holy Shelton is arguably no better)

[fulminating]

That’s the point though, the raidwide mitigations were meant to have upsides and downsides

The magical mitigations are explicitly designed to be better at bleedwides and multihit raidwides (like terminal relativity), while the shields are Omni mitigation that doesn’t suffer from diminishing returns but once they crack they are gone

The only real problem with the communication was block not blocking bleeds so PLD just got shredded, DRK Having higher defence at the expense of sustain and having the arguably weaker type of mitigation is totally fine, it’s having upsides and downsides for different tanks

Benewhetting only applies in dungeons but bloodwhetting still heals for 1000 healer potency per activation of bloodwhetting plus all its other heals, it’s not like it’s remotely balanced (the magic healing combo combined with holy Shelton is arguably no better)

I have looked at some logs and changed my mind. DPS should have no access to feint/addle/uniquename, mitigation should be done entirely by the tank because the red guys can't be trusted.

[Supersnow845]

I have looked at some logs and changed my mind. DPS should have no access to feint/addle/uniquename, mitigation should be done entirely by the tank because the red guys can't be trusted.

Raidwide mitigation should be the purview of the shield healer with single target mitigation being the purview of the tanks (mostly for themselves)

The tanks already have too much raidwide responsibility for the role that is least affected by raidwides

[fulminating]

Raidwide mitigation should be the purview of the shield healer with single target mitigation being the purview of the tanks (mostly for themselves)

The tanks already have too much raidwide responsibility for the role that is lead affected by raidwides

Tank limit break is a raidwide mitigation. I don't care if party mitigation is split between healers and tanks as long as the damn button is actually pressed at an appropriate point.

[Valence]

Raidwide mitigation should be the purview of the shield healer with single target mitigation being the purview of the tanks (mostly for themselves)

The tanks already have too much raidwide responsibility for the role that is least affected by raidwides

What are we rphys supposed to do sadge

[Lyth]

Let's not pretend that shake it off and divine veil, even with the initial heal, were particularly useful against any bleedwide in abyssos.

I don't follow your claim.

The trade-off between barriers and damage resistance has to do with the total damage associated with the raidwide. Mathematically, it doesn't matter if the total damage is distributed as a multihit or incorporates a DoT (the latter which is equivalent to the multihit case). Take the sum of the damage across all hits (or ticks). If that total damage is equal to 100% of your HP, that's the break even point where damage resistance and barriers are equivalent. Below that, barriers are more effective. Above, damage resistance.

In the case of Shake it Off, you need a raidwide that hits for 150-210% of your total HP as a break even point for a 10% damage resistance effect to be equivalent, since Shake it Off has a higher barrier percentage. This is before you account for the burst healing and regen 'additional effects' that have been added in this expansion. That's also not even accounting for the fact that two tank raidwides don't even work against physical effects like P10S' HH.

The idea of DoT effects on raidwides are not new. Almagest was a thing in the very same tier that Shake it Off was turned into a barrier. This is a classic case of people pushing the boundaries. Why doesn't Shake it Off have a barrier-over-time effect to help counter DoT effects? Perhaps it needs to come with an invuln as well.

I think we're losing track of the division of responsibility in roles here. Tanks are there to make the wave of incoming damage survivable, not raid heal through it with a zero downside, zero cost oGCD. This needs to be rolled back.

[Aravell]

Personally, I wish physical ranged DPS focused more on their main strength which is mobility. Back in Ramuh EX, having a bard was very important because they could very easily move from the edge of the arena into the center without disrupting their DPS. Why this was so important was because being all the way at the edge of the arena allowed them to bait every instance of charm while the rest of the team didn't have to worry about their positioning in that regard. Why aren't fights designed to have mechanics where having one person bait something while on the move? Like what if there was an object that you could pick up or pass to a party member simply by moving over it/them, and regularly, the boss will target that with chasing AOEs. If it gets hit, it explodes dealing massive damage to the party, but the physical ranged DPS can pick it up and run it around, avoiding the AOEs without dropping DPS. That would be something catered especially to their strength in the fight itself.

I think the last fight that made use of the mobility of a physical ranged was O11S with the missile baits during Pantokrator 2.

But then again, most people didn't understand the mechanic and just made the PLD disengage and invuln the missiles.

[Absurdity]

I think the last fight that made use of the mobility of a physical ranged was O11S with the missile baits during Pantokrator 2.

But then again, most people didn't understand the mechanic and just made the PLD disengage and invuln the missiles.

E1S for proximity AoE baiting is the last I can remember. Doesn't exactly help that every time we get these mechanics half the phys ranged throw a fit because they can't be bothered to actually make use of their job mobility.

Then you stand there as a tank, having to bait AoEs away from the boss, with 2 phys ranged in the party, and you just question why you bring those low budget casters in the first place.

[Supersnow845]

E1S for proximity AoE baiting is the last I can remember. Doesn't exactly help that every time we get these mechanics half the phys ranged throw a fit because they can't be bothered to actually make use of their job mobility.

Then you stand there as a tank, having to bait AoEs away from the boss, with 2 phys ranged in the party, and you just question why you bring those low budget casters in the first place.

Do you mean Gaia’s relativities because you always baited with the tanks

I can’t think of anything in 12 where the phys ranged could bait anything

[Aravell]

E1S for proximity AoE baiting is the last I can remember. Doesn't exactly help that every time we get these mechanics half the phys ranged throw a fit because they can't be bothered to actually make use of their job mobility.

Then you stand there as a tank, having to bait AoEs away from the boss, with 2 phys ranged in the party, and you just question why you bring those low budget casters in the first place.

If you're talking about the Dimensional Shift baits, all 4 ranged have to do that, so it's not exactly something that makes use of the physical ranged in particular.

I'm more talking about stuff like the aforementioned missile bait during Pantokrator 2 or the Mustard Bomb tether also in O11S that the physical ranged can take without losing damage and just get covered by the PLD for the Atomic Ray after. Stuff that makes use of their free mobility to make mechanics less annoying for others.