Boring design

[Osmond]

The thing about that is that Yoshida himself admitted that they don't know what to do with SCH. I don't think we're very likely to see improvement of the current kit.

It would help if they didn't heavily limit their options on expanding the kit by touting balance problems all the time.

I wouldn’t know what do with SCH either lol. Every attempt they do, it gets better for no reason.

[currentlemon]

Isn’t the point of the discussion not to agree with everything? To oppose and find the middle ground?

And what exactly do you bring to the discussion here?

Giving Healers new or upgraded healing abilities alone will not improve the role as a whole. There are a plethora of other issues that go against the role besides Healer DPS / Healer Downtime. Dawntrail needs something new. Something exciting or some meaningful changes to keep most healer players satisfied since Endwalker did not bring any meaningful changes to the role (and no I don't count Sage).

Edit: Might I add that the FFXIV team has no dedicated Healer dev, which doesn't help the situation at all.

[Osmond]

And what exactly do you bring to the discussion here?

Giving Healers new or upgraded healing abilities alone will not improve the role as a whole. There are a plethora of other issues that go against the role besides Healer DPS / Healer Downtime. Dawntrail needs something new. Something exciting or some meaningful changes to keep most healer players satisfied since Endwalker did not bring any meaningful changes to the role (and no I don't count Sage).

Edit: Might I add that the FFXIV team has no dedicated Healer dev, which doesn't help the situation at all.

Read back and try again. I supposed to reply by your standards?

[AnotherPerson]

Isn’t the point of the discussion not to agree with everything? To oppose and find the middle ground?

What middle ground? There hasn't been any middle ground for healing in the last 2 expansions. Healers just kept on getting more superfluous healing actions, but Tanks get more sustain to invalidate it. Healers get nothing in return. I remember saying at one point that they should increase the frequency of damage + randomness in fights to make healers heal and actively engage more in their toolkits. Less pass/fail checks and more places for recovery. If they were concerned about accessibility for the party as a whole, then they can give tanks a bit more sustain and give healers more things to do during downtime if healing wasn't necessary since there's already healers having near 100% DPS uptime while healing (aka there's already too much healing and they need to redistribute responsibility of the increasing lack of healing somewhere else). SE then ignored the part about healers getting something else to do during downtime and buffed tank sustain without increasing the randomness of mechanics or frequency of damage to any meaningful degree. Instead, bosses show their mechanic even more slowly now (Alliance raid bosses doing one mechanic at a time before doubling up mechanics in Endwalker). Then proceeded to say they didn't want healers to stress about DPS and tell healers to go play Ultimates.

???????

Damage goes down relative to the abundance of healing in the party. Healing agency goes down (more focus towards mitigation applied by the DPS and tanks) but healers only get more healing tools with very little place to use them. Now we have parties that can directly exclude the need for a healer in dungeons and do so because healers offer too little in return. Damage is so scripted to the point that they took away the variance that makes healers prioritize the act of healing rather than the act of dpsing.

What middle ground. WHAT MIDDLE GROUND

I really hope Dawntrail has something healers can actually look forward to, because this gameplay isn't it.

[ty_taurus]

Stop giving me more healing abilities until you give me enough reasons to use the ones I have. I'm drowning in healing. I don't need more!

[Osmond]

What middle ground? There hasn't been any middle ground for healing in the last 2 expansions. Healers just kept on getting more superfluous healing actions, but Tanks get more sustain to invalidate it. Healers get nothing in return. I remember saying at one point that they should increase the frequency of damage + randomness in fights to make healers heal and actively engage more in their toolkits. Less pass/fail checks and more places for recovery. If they were concerned about accessibility for the party as a whole, then they can give tanks a bit more sustain and give healers more things to do during downtime if healing wasn't necessary since there's already healers having near 100% DPS uptime while healing (aka there's already too much healing and they need to redistribute responsibility of the increasing lack of healing somewhere else). SE then ignored the part about healers getting something else to do during downtime and buffed tank sustain without increasing the randomness of mechanics or frequency of damage to any meaningful degree. Instead, bosses show their mechanic even more slowly now (Alliance raid bosses doing one mechanic at a time before doubling up mechanics in Endwalker). Then proceeded to say they didn't want healers to stress about DPS and tell healers to go play Ultimates.

???????

Damage goes down relative to the abundance of healing in the party. Healing agency goes down (more focus towards mitigation applied by the DPS and tanks) but healers only get more healing tools with very little place to use them. Now we have parties that can directly exclude the need for a healer in dungeons and do so because healers offer too little in return. Damage is so scripted to the point that they took away the variance that makes healers prioritize the act of healing rather than the act of dpsing.

What middle ground. WHAT MIDDLE GROUND

I really hope Dawntrail has something healers can actually look forward to, because this gameplay isn't it.

…….they’ll just nerf the dps and tanks healing recovery, also their party mitigation. Their experiment with the current expansion wasn’t the best, yet it was a learning experience.

[AmiableApkallu]

they’ll just nerf the dps and tanks healing recovery, also their party mitigation

I feel like this is one of those claims where we should be betting fine bottles of wine and whiskey on its truth. Or maybe a couple rounds of drinks at the local tavern.

[ThorneDynasty]

Osmond, the reason you are annoying everyone is that you are flooding the forum with these sweeping claims with zero reasoning and without engaging at all with the counterarguments that have been well laid out again and again. Like: "They'll nerf dps and tanks recovery" - BASED ON FUCKING WHAT? That claim alone requires at least citing a dev interview. But you are just going to keep stating this nonsense as fact without anything to back it up except your nonexistent authority, because you totes played SCH a lot so you know these things.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Idk how one can say that they 'will' nerf tank recovery when Bloodwhetting has been sitting there cozily since 6.0 and receive no adjustment to its working despite being one of the worst button that they have conceived in recent expansions in term of how harmful it is to the trinity health. Y'know, that one 4 Benedictions with 25s cooldown (17s downtime)? Instead they added even more to the same job in 6.3 'cause apparently it just has to be the best at everything lol.

Make it make sense.

[fulminating]

Idk how one can say that they 'will' nerf tank recovery when Bloodwhetting has been sitting there cozily since 6.0 and receive no adjustment to its working despite being one of the worst button that they have conceived in recent expansions in term of how harmful it is to the trinity health. Y'know, that one 4 Benedictions with 25s cooldown (17s downtime)? Instead they added even more to the same job in 6.3 'cause apparently it just has to be the best at everything lol.

Make it make sense.

Let's not pretend that shake it off and divine veil, even with the initial heal, were particularly useful against any bleedwide in abyssos. Let's also not pretend that dark knight wasn't insanely overtuned defensively and offensively in asphodelos and abyssos. This seems a bit like a lack of communication or forethought between the raid and job design teams. That said, the reluctance on the dev's part to be perceived to nerf things does not help at all, especially with the all comps are viable/accessibility angle they seem to have adopted. I am also skeptical that utility heavy bursty tanks can be appropriately balanced with how much swing raid buff stacking carries.

Benewhetting only really applies during dungeons, which does not seem to be the focus of balancing. Nonetheless I would rather nascent put back to shb and benewhetting changed to just temphp and mit or shield and mit. edit: To say the quiet part aloud, no matter which tank you have, they shouldn't be struggling in any way shape or form in expert dungeons.