SAM PVP: How are you supposed to play this class?

[Shikiseki]

SAM sure feels like a big brain job in CC and probably the job that I get the most variance in terms of performance when I do my job rotation in casual CC.
Sometimes it's a free damage machine with others conveniently stacking up and ignoring you, other times you just get shut down with simple side steps from your charge attacks lol. It really promotes a rather unorthodox fighting style to get the most out of it. Those dash aoes add up real fast and once you see a bound or stunned target, it's time to strike

I just hope they do not change their authentic Zantetsuken though just because they got nooby-trapped into it - it's in line with the job flavour and should be preserved at least in PvP at all costs

[Burmecia]

That Chiten debuff should not work with AOE attacks, only direct attacks.

+1 for good idea
though i am still optimistic about the chance that they just lose the autokill <3

[Mawlzy]

SAM sure feels like a big brain job in CC and probably the job that I get the most variance in terms of performance when I do my job rotation in casual CC.
Sometimes it's a free damage machine with others conveniently stacking up and ignoring you, other times you just get shut down with simple side steps from your charge attacks lol. It really promotes a rather unorthodox fighting style to get the most out of it. Those dash aoes add up real fast and once you see a bound or stunned target, it's time to strike

I just hope they do not change their authentic Zantetsuken though just because they got nooby-trapped into it - it's in line with the job flavour and should be preserved at least in PvP at all costs

Classic example of why FL and CC need to be balanced differently (beyond DRs). I suspect the main reason it's played in FL is to farm KOs for some damn-fool achievement.

[Jaydarksol]

The fact the class is good for FL and not CC when every other class is good for both is absolutely a reason why SAM needs a rework, It needs higher damage on its main abilities to have consistent high pressure. The fact its 1-2-3 is weak and its CASTED hitters hit less than other instant cast DPS classes is ridiculous. I would not be talking bad about this if SAM did 12k damage baseline on multiple targets, but to have a damn AoE team fight class be PUNISHED for team fighting by giving them 8k damage on their attacks is so laughable of a design.

The LB is absolutely the worst out of all classes, and I would be willing to sacrifice the 1 shot goofy mechanic it has for higher sustained.

Idea for LB:

Massive AOE Bleed, where it still does the cut through, but instead of instant death it chunks peoples health forcing defensives.
IF you want to keep the flavor of "They have to hit into it" then let it be a defense as well.

For example, SAM pops LB, team mates within the area gain a buff for 3-4 seconds. IF anyone in the team is hit, the attacker is marked. Once marked, the SAM can recast the LB and cause the enemy to lose 25% health per second, Persists through shield (but the damage is reduced by it).

This gives players time to shield, heal or whatnot. IF noone gets hit then it gives the team 4 seconds to push through.

This can effectively:
For LB-
Crowd Control for 3-4 seconds
Continue to provide consistent pressure throughout the entirety of the SAM's toolkit
Alleviate the issue with the 1 shot (for those who hate it on both sides)
reduce the ridiculously long build up for SAM's LB

For normal attacks-
Provide sustained damage over the course of the match
allow SAM casted abilities to actually matter in team fights.
Make them a frontline fighter again instead of a NIN knockoff


This gives SAM TEAM utility in CC AND Damage that eliminates the dumb 1 shot gimmick.

[joansbones]

I'm gonna be real with you man, in this entire thread you sound like you are blaming the job for your inability to improve at Crystalline Conflict. You are convinced that samurai is in some sort of unusable underpowered state when that simply isn't the case, and many players can routinely hit top 30 just by playing it exclusively. I've done it myself one season, and there's nothing wrong with how it stacks up against other jobs. A lot of your complaints about how samurai functions come from a fundamental misunderstanding about how the mode is played and what the role of each individual skill is.

[Valence]

If you want to make the LB better, you could just make it behave exactly like Soten in a long line dash with a decent width. It would on top of it favor skill plays depending on how your position yourself and which target you go for. Its current radius is ridiculously small and only nets crazy results when everybody is stacked.

Couldn't it be helped in another area rather than preserving a "skill" that is simply inappropriate for FL?

I think that LB is literally one of your least worries in any FL game and I don't see any problem with it. Even when playing SAM in FL, unless you're specifically skirmishing, you don't even have any enemy team list to rely on to see who got hit by kuzushi and you're more than likely to fumble your LB blind by hoping it hits someone with it. The SAM LB suicide multi kills are literally unicorns. Worse, the radius is so small that even if you snatch someone, a best you'll kill one or two like in CC, even less seeing how wide and open FL maps are, and you'll just expose yourself to the enemy blob after your dash, ending up helpless and dead meat for them to clean up.

That class is underwhelming as heck in FLs even moreso than in CC where it performs, even though it's not on the meta level of other melee DPS.

[Mawlzy]

If you want to make the LB better, you could just make it behave exactly like Soten in a long line dash with a decent width. It would on top of it favor skill plays depending on how your position yourself and which target you go for. Its current radius is ridiculously small and only nets crazy results when everybody is stacked.



I think that LB is literally one of your least worries in any FL game and I don't see any problem with it. Even when playing SAM in FL, unless you're specifically skirmishing, you don't even have any enemy team list to rely on to see who got hit by kuzushi and you're more than likely to fumble your LB blind by hoping it hits someone with it. The SAM LB suicide multi kills are literally unicorns. Worse, the radius is so small that even if you snatch someone, a best you'll kill one or two like in CC, even less seeing how wide and open FL maps are, and you'll just expose yourself to the enemy blob after your dash, ending up helpless and dead meat for them to clean up.

That class is underwhelming as heck in FLs even moreso than in CC where it performs, even though it's not on the meta level of other melee DPS.

Yeah that's fair. I'm more worried about the me kills. As WAR I'm frequently leaping into blobs and the one shot just feels cheap, but I'm probably experiencing it as a bigger problem than it is through some cognitive bias.

[Jaydarksol]

I'm gonna be real with you man, in this entire thread you sound like you are blaming the job for your inability to improve at Crystalline Conflict. You are convinced that samurai is in some sort of unusable underpowered state when that simply isn't the case, and many players can routinely hit top 30 just by playing it exclusively. I've done it myself one season, and there's nothing wrong with how it stacks up against other jobs. A lot of your complaints about how samurai functions come from a fundamental misunderstanding about how the mode is played and what the role of each individual skill is.

I am more than willing to hear or be shown how the class is meant to be played, how each individual skill and mode is meant to be played. earlier in the thread I had someone break it down for me, and it helped a LOT, however compared to other classes it honestly takes twice the effort for SAM to perform mediocre compared to the other classes I play. The LB imo is a huge problem because everyone complains the hell out of it. The class itself is very lacklust and mediocre in its ability to secure kills and reliably stand up on its own as a class with no exit. I have had success with it don't get me wrong here, but the level of effort needed to even produce that and to help my team is easily twice that of anything else and THAT is not ok, THAT makes the class feel cheap and junky. My issue with the LB is it limits the class's potential to change, if we have a 1 shot EVERYONE is going to leverage it to why it shouldn't function better.

[Vandi]

I just wanna know which devs made the decision to so miserably alter Sam in the first place this expansion. Chiten > Bloodbath > Midares used to be game changer in a duel. Enpi was a perfect range tester for feel of engagement. The ability to manually position the dash so as to slip backwards was wonderful. All that’s gone now in favor of forced face tanking, a chiten that’s next to worthless even played tactically at its best and mandatory aoe spam (since it just wasn’t needed with Shadowbringer sam. That old saying ‘if it’s not broken, don’t fix it’ applies here once again, but eh…too late to complain now.

[Gaiinahat]

How are you supposed to play this class? Fear is your ally.

You hit Chiten and then dive into a group of enemies. Everyone around you sees you're about to burst on them and they scatter.
Pick a target inflicted with your Kuzushi. If Zantetsuken is ready, spring it on them. Instant kill.
If it's not ready, AoE skills to stun and strike. Pick another distant target, slide away from the crowd with Soten. You might get a kill.

Mwahahaha!!! >: D