SAM PVP: How are you supposed to play this class?

[Jaydarksol]

• Seems to be shredded by every class, can barely duel, easily avoided and ran away from.
• GCD Kills burst combos to secure a kill
• 3-attack combo is weak, sacrifice movement for neglectable damage / utility.

The class feels handicapped, and easily one of the lowest dps unless you nail the LB.


Would genuinely appreciate understanding this class, because I am at a complete loss on what i can currently consider an underwhelming design. P.S I am also aware it really could just be my performance, but that is why I am open to understanding it. My experience as a CC player is Crystal Rank if that helps any.

[Valence]

There is Samurai players evolving in the top ranks so it does perform. I think everybody agrees that it's a little underwhelming on some points (especially the LB), but shredded by every class? If I play ranged and I have a samurai harassing me I take it very seriously. If they know what they're doing they'll shred you, because by essence of being a melee dps, they soft counter you, and SAM has a lot of tools to chase (3 dashes + a bind + stun, which is more than what almost everybody else can claim to have).

But it is indeed the least survivable melee DPS which tends to make it be a lot less durable on the frontlines, and the cast times require surgical planning.

[Jaydarksol]

Greatly appreciate the reply, hope to learn it to a very great extent, just right now it feels I have no guide to it. Even the youtube videos ive come across have all been watered down basics that don't entirely go through playstyles, target priorities, moments to counter things like that. Learning as we speak but would love to have someone with the knowledge at top rank to provide some insight on top of any info others have.

[Valence]

I do feel the job requires a big of a learning curve to get a feel for the cast times especially and a stronger discipline then other melees due to the limited survivability timings (SAM is even more about timings than other melees imo). Get in, burn purifies on AoE binds like RPR does, play bruiser on point, else harass backliners with hard hitting skills. Gauge how their team responds because one of the weaknesses of sam is the lack of escape button (unless you can gap close back on the enemy frontline) and an extremely limited mitigation window so if they try to peel you off their ranged, they can kill you pretty quick if you linger.

TBh I've also accepted that some classes don't click as well as some others with me and I bet it's the same for everybody. I just can't wrap my head around DRK for example.

[Mistress_Irika]

I don't think you're going to be able to find a great guide on samurai. Most people just look to instant kill others with their limit break. I haven't played CC in months, but I'm pretty sure that most players are still marking samurai target to ignore every time their limit break pops up.

Majority of the things I do agree with you with. Samurai seems very weak compared to the other melees, because they're the only class that is forced to commit in the frontlines. They don't really have any escape tools at their disposal. As far as being easily shredded that's about the only thing I can confidently disagree with. Chiten is the strongest ability that samurai has. It's not a defensive tool. It's a counter-burst tool. It gains a ton of value from other people targeting them while they're on the offense. I would personally avoid using stuns and roots while Chiten is active unless you are forced to as a last ditch effort to live.

Take it with a grain of salt. I only have 3 hours of Crystal gameplay experience despite never touching Crystal at all.

[Toffa]

Chiten is an incredible cooldown and getting the most out of it is the most important part of SAM.
You kinda have to play the psychological game to succeed.
People not hitting you is mitigation.
If they waste all their cooldowns getting subpar results while hitting you in chiten and you make them waste more MP by hitting them back with Kuzuchi on them, then you've won.

[Valence]

The people purposely dodging you while your LB is up is what gives Chiten/Zantetsuken the most value, but if the enemy aren't total tools at high level (crystal), they also know to watch for it, wait for the 5s to be over, and then burst down the SAM to death. Chiten is not bad, but it just doesn't compare to the big boys like RoE, Arcane Crest, or Horrid. The counter damage is pitiful compared to what Nebula does and the effect only lasts for 5s (still better than nothing). The 25% mit is great to survive bursts, but it will not make you unkillable (unlike Horrid, etc). It's also a tool that has to be used well in order to unlock your full power on Namikiri/Midare, which further increases the cumbersome value of the toolkit combined with cast times when you want to burst someone down, which SAM isn't great at (but still, do participate in burst calls). It's a competent damage dealer, and a great chaser and harasser though, especially if you manage to locate the crippled enemies since you can just stun them before they heal or retreat.

[Jaydarksol]

I feel there is a genuine need to remove our LB, if the reason they are keeping from bringing SAM up to par with the other class is our LB can one shot yet takes 2x the effort to activate. I would recommend they get rid of it.

I'm loving the class, but this is extremely underwhelming.

[PotatoTree]

Sam LB is a bit flawed in that it depends on the enemy team messing up.

This means that it's extremely OP against new players in lower ranks, but in high ranks everybody knows it's coming. 10 seasons ago people would mark ignore the lb'ing SAM, but nowadays everyone is so aware that the mark usually doesn't even happen as it's just not needed, and if it's a 1 kill trade it's still a win for the enemy team since that lb took so long to charge. At that point you'd rather just have a mnk lb for a guaranteed kill.

It's also a bit harder to play since it can only dash in for an engage but can't dash out like the other melees. So that means you need to choose your engagement carefully.

[AnotherPerson]

Chiten is an incredible cooldown and getting the most out of it is the most important part of SAM.
You kinda have to play the psychological game to succeed.
People not hitting you is mitigation.
If they waste all their cooldowns getting subpar results while hitting you in chiten and you make them waste more MP by hitting them back with Kuzuchi on them, then you've won.

Pretty much this. Samurai can be played to apply "pressure" when done correctly.

Chiten is your bread and butter to deceive and create openings while applying pressure. Having it up means enemies take a loss focusing you, but it also means you're the most dangerous when LB is up. That simultaneously means you can focus them hard when your LB is up because they're less likely to hit you, but it also means they're going to want to burst you down immediately. Figuring out and reading your opponent in these situations to maximize Chiten without dying can greatly change how far you can go as a Samurai. It's a very opportunistic job, but the opportunistic element have a huge payoff when executed properly.

If I were to say Scholar is the calculative pressure that slowly shaves off your opponent's advantages to turn the tide in your favor, Samurai has the ability to play the exact opposite - it aims to apply instantaneous pressure when you can spot the opening. The more skilled your opponents are, the more wary they'll be and that's when the psychological game starts. The less skilled your opponents are, the easier it is to execute the LB for a decisive kill.

Edit: In case this leaves misunderstanding, I want to clarify that the opportunistic element and toolkit as a whole is good on Samurai. It's actually a very unique strength that allows Samurais to play differently from other jobs. Applying pressure on your opponent is another way to CC your opponents, keeping them guessing, and distracting them. Sometimes the reason why matches can be drawn out or end is because one team managed to read their opponents better, someone slipped up and created an opening under the pressure of having to constantly multi-task, or a team managed to capitalize on an small victory that allowed them to snowball. Sometimes it's a combination of all of the above.

In that regard, Samurai has all the tools to create openings and win with coordination with a team, but it can be harder for a team to coordinate with a Samurai if the Samurai's brain circuits is playing 5D chess while everyone else is playing checkers. Samurais have to adjust accordingly based on playstyle and how their team + the enemy team is doing. Unlike a Monk who can guarantee 1 person will be shoved into the dirt and CC'd to death, Samurai can do much more, but it's much harder to properly set that up, so it's usually simpler to do a simple trade with Zantetsuken with Chiten up.

Also, since you're referring to Crystalline Conflict in specific, Sam LB isn't weak. People sleep on SAM LB because it's hard to pull off the 1 hit kill on multiple targets, but then people also tend to forget it's 24,000 potency AoE. Again, psychological game. Don't let yourself get trapped into purely hitting the peak goal with one slash kills everyone if you're playing Samurai. You have 4 other party members to help you. If you need to help your team burst your opponents down in Crystalline Conflict, the LB is there. The key for opportunistic jobs is learning how to maximize your toolkit in any given situation without getting caught up in the psychological part of thinking you must specifically do XYZ to win. Tunnel vision over the win conditions is the main reason why most people misunderstand Samurai's core strengths because they focus too heavily on the most notable one, which usually leads to neglect on the rest of the toolkit.

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. It's possible that my playstyle is just a little twisted and isn't actually how Samurai is meant to be played. I like to turn any job in PvP into a mental game and built my playstyle around it, and that's how I make the job work for me. Idk. I do a little bit of trolling from time to time. There is definitely a level of opportunistic gameplay available for Samurai, but perhaps you can find a different playstyle for Samurai based on the way you approach opponents and emphasize different parts of your toolkit.