Elements

[Octavia_Deathschoicen]

Alright, so ice and lightning are buffed.
Would this apply to all fights or is it in specific Ifrit? If so, why?
Ice traditionally is weak to fire, while lightning is neither strong or weak against the element.

How would MP regeneration for black mage be affected? Would it be removed?
We are told in universe that it is important to not tip too strongly to one element, otherwise it will consume us.
This is stated in one of the early thaumaturge quests iirc

I'll also use red mage as an example, as it's my favorite caster
How do you do damage to Ifrit?

Verfire would do pitiful damage, and if you want to be realistic about it veraero would do little damage, since wind would then create more oxygen for his flames.
How do you balance your gauge and do your melee rotation?

My point with this is to show that it isn't as simple as it may sound to shove these elements into a system where they previously did not exist.
I enjoy things like this, where you have to plan and strategize to defeat your foes, but something like that needs to be planned from the ground up.
It would require a complete rework of all the classes to make their elements matter in any meaningful way.

give blm water, earth and air attacks and make the elements effect their counterpart simple, same can be done with red mage and any other caster lol there is also a thing called non elemental attacks such as scythe

[Supersnow845]

give blm water, earth and air attacks and make the elements effect their counterpart simple, same can be done with red mage and any other caster lol

We have entire 5th astral era quests that explain specifically why this wouldn’t work and goes against all lore

BLM controls fire ice and lightning, WHM controls water wind and earth though rarely uses water

The hundreds of years of war depleting the elements is why the 5th umbral calamity was water aspected

Water is just canonically an underused element in the magical professions

[Octavia_Deathschoicen]

We have entire 5th astral era quests that explain specifically why this wouldn’t work and goes against all lore

BLM controls fire ice and lightning, WHM controls water wind and earth though rarely uses water

The hundreds of years of war depleting the elements is why the 5th umbral calamity was water aspected

Water is just canonically an underused element in the magical professions

lore can be changed and modify just because something is written doesnt mean at a later area it can change it

also the "lore" is just current zone lore which can easily be dismissed in new areas


also water was / is used by many but all npcs

[Supersnow845]

lore can be changed and modify just because something is written doesnt mean at a later area it can change it

Unless you want to change the entirety of the shadows of mhach alliance questline and the entire foundation of how the rejoining happen then sure

This isn’t just a minor shoehorning in of new lore for AST/SMN when they ripped the job apart this is foundational to 14’s world

[Raikai]

lore can be changed and modify just because something is written doesnt mean at a later area it can change it

also the "lore" is just current zone lore which can easily be dismissed in new areas


also water was / is used by many but all npcs

Blue Mages have tons of water spells too.

I like the idea, but sadly for a PVE focused game, situational elements is not very sustainable. WoW got rid of this as well for those logistic reasons.

[MikkoAkure]

The hundreds of years of war depleting the elements is why the 5th umbral calamity was water aspected

Water is just canonically an underused element in the magical professions

Off-topic, but I think this is a frequently misunderstood part of the lore on these forums because "white mages not using water" is not actually a reason for the 6th Umbral Calamity (the 5th was ice) and best I can tell is that like a lot of other things in this game, it got made up by players somewhere and spread around as if it were true.

"Water" as a spell existed for players before Conjurer turned into a healing class halfway through 1.0 and the reason they don't have them today is job streamlining rather than lore. Otherwise they wouldn't have given them a new water ability in EW in Aquaveil, the quest "Trial by Water" where one of the Padjal asks us to commune with the "third art of conjury - water", and they wouldn't have had Fluid Aura, which itself got streamlined away. The aether situation was out of whack during the War of the Magi and then a water-themed disaster on another shard is what caused the Flood.


On-topic, the game is not made to operate on elemental weaknesses anymore. I'm sure there are games where it works, but this one just isn't designed around that anymore and it's not worth it to change it because it's just not about that.

Frankly, it's better off because otherwise mostly just DoM would be penalized for playing mages by having to keep track of elemental weaknesses and changing jobs accordingly unless we were to bring back bludgeoning/piercing/slashing resistances too. And even if they all got updated spell lists to cover everything, I don't want to play menu instead of the game or make my own macros just to deal damage.

[Supersnow845]

Off-topic, but I think this is a frequently misunderstood part of the lore on these forums because "white mages not using water" is not actually a reason for the 6th Umbral Calamity (the 5th was ice) and best I can tell is that like a lot of other things in this game, it got made up by players somewhere and spread around as if it were true.

"Water" as a spell existed for players before Conjurer turned into a healing class halfway through 1.0 and the reason they don't have them today is job streamlining rather than lore. Otherwise they wouldn't have given them a new water ability in EW in Aquaveil, the quest "Trial by Water" where one of the Padjal asks us to commune with the "third art of conjury - water", and they wouldn't have had Fluid Aura, which itself got streamlined away. The aether situation was out of whack during the War of the Magi and then a water-themed disaster on another shard is what caused the Flood.


On-topic, the game is not made to operate on elemental weaknesses anymore. I'm sure there are games where it works, but this one just isn't designed around that anymore and it's not worth it to change it because it's just not about that.

Frankly, it's better off because otherwise mostly just DoM would be penalized for playing mages by having to keep track of elemental weaknesses and changing jobs accordingly unless we were to bring back bludgeoning/piercing/slashing resistances too. And even if they all got updated spell lists to cover everything, I don't want to play menu instead of the game or make my own macros just to deal damage.

Emet selch specifically mentions that there has to be an excess of the energy of the requisite shard of the umbral calamity

The shard consumed by the 6th umbral calamity (the 10th) was consumed by water but the rejoining only happened because the source was overflowing with excess water energy (specifically because the war of the magi overused the other 5 elements), if the source wasn’t overflowing with water aether then the 10th would have become like the 13th

WHM doesn’t completely ignore water but it’s by far the least used element of the 6 between the black and white mages, and nym also used a lot of wind