Elements

[MikkoAkure]

specifically because the war of the magi overused the other 5 elements

Do you have an actual source for water being underused causing a calamity or is it just your speculation based on current gameplay mechanics?

When Conjurer had half their spells given to Thaumaturge and the gameplay was redesigned, there just wasn’t enough room for 3 elements being equally prominent anymore, especially as WHM slowly moved away from CNJ and the elements were replaced with light spells. Not sure where else water was supposed to fit in with healers’ nerfed damage rotations so it was relegated to Fluid Aura and then Aquaveil. It’s not any deeper than that.

White mages from the War of the Magi would have mostly used light magic anyway. They didn’t commune with the Elementals and the Twelveswood did not reach Amdapor like it does now. The way WHMs from 1700 years ago used their magic would be completely different from the path our WoL takes on that journey starting as a CNJ, and so earth/wind/water magic might not have been relevant at all.


If there were a lore-reason for water not being used it would have been important enough to say outright and instead we have the CNJ quests and NPCs which specifically state that water is part of their magic along with earth and wind. This game’s writing isn’t exactly subtle and something as important as “water magic flooded the world because Amdapor’s WHMs didn’t use it much” would not have been left to subtext if it was more than just your fanon.

[Supersnow845]

Do you have an actual source for water being underused causing a calamity or is it just your speculation based on current gameplay mechanics?

When Conjurer had half their spells given to Thaumaturge and the gameplay was redesigned, there just wasn’t enough room for 3 elements being equally prominent anymore, especially as WHM slowly moved away from CNJ and the elements were replaced with light spells. Not sure where else water was supposed to fit in with healers’ nerfed damage rotations so it was relegated to Fluid Aura and then Aquaveil. It’s not any deeper than that.

White mages from the War of the Magi would have mostly used light magic anyway. They didn’t commune with the Elementals and the Twelveswood did not reach Amdapor like it does now. The way WHMs from 1700 years ago used their magic would be completely different from the path our WoL takes on that journey starting as a CNJ, and so earth/wind/water magic might not have been relevant at all.


If there were a lore-reason for water not being used it would have been important enough to say outright and instead we have the CNJ quests and NPCs which specifically state that water is part of their magic along with earth and wind. This game’s writing isn’t exactly subtle and something as important as “water magic flooded the world because Amdapor’s WHMs didn’t use it much” would not have been left to subtext if it was more than just your fanon.

https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki...al_Fantasy_XIV)

“The wanton abuse of the lands aether tipped the balance towards water (the other elements having been extensively used in the conflict)”

On the wiki pulled from encyclopaedia eorzea

It may not be fully linked to modern white magic who got its skills pruned in legacy but the 6th umbral calamity was caused by an elemental imbalance caused by the war of the magi as no side used water as extensively as any other element

The black mages focused on ice, fire and lightning, the white mages focused on light and earth and nyrm focused on wind, water wasn’t extensively used by any side

[MikkoAkure]

https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki...al_Fantasy_XIV)

“The wanton abuse of the lands aether tipped the balance towards water (the other elements having been extensively used in the conflict)”

On the wiki pulled from encyclopaedia eorzea

It may not be fully linked to modern white magic who got its skills pruned in legacy but the 6th umbral calamity was caused by an elemental imbalance caused by the war of the magi as no side used water as extensively as any other element

The black mages focused on ice, fire and lightning, the white mages focused on light and earth and nyrm focused on wind, water wasn’t extensively used by any side

I have the Encyclopedia Eorzea and it doesn't say that. That link is also empty and the wiki isn't exactly a reputable source either.

There's a mention that "Monitoring of the realm's aether indicated an unhealthy imbalance towards water" but nothing at all about the use or lack thereof of water magic being the cause. Instead everything else just points to generally sucking the land's aether out and that is mentioned repeatedly over and over in that section. There's also no mention of "Nym being focused on wind".

[Equitable_Remedy]

for one water is basicly hardly even touched in jobs

This is NIN erasure.

[Supersnow845]

I have the Encyclopedia Eorzea and it doesn't say that. That link is also empty and the wiki isn't exactly a reputable source either.

There's a mention that "Monitoring of the realm's aether indicated an unhealthy imbalance towards water" but nothing at all about the use or lack thereof of water magic being the cause. Instead everything else just points to generally sucking the land's aether out and that is mentioned repeatedly over and over in that section. There's also no mention of "Nym being focused on wind".

So the war of the magi sucked all the lands aether but left water, I physically don’t know how that can be interpreted any other way than the magical societies didn’t use as much water otherwise they would have sucked out all the lands aether and caused a blight/empty style situation that may have induced an umbral aspected calamity but not a water one

The land was tipped to a very specific element, one that aligned with the 10th, and it was caused by the war of the magi, what other answer is there in this situation

[MikkoAkure]

So the war of the magi sucked all the lands aether but left water, I physically don’t know how that can be interpreted any other way than the magical societies didn’t use as much water otherwise they would have sucked out all the lands aether and caused a blight/empty style situation that may have induced an umbral aspected calamity but not a water one

The land was tipped to a very specific element, one that aligned with the 10th, and it was caused by the war of the magi, what other answer is there in this situation

During the War of the Magi both sides used ambient aether to power their spells. The encyclopedia says "when [ambient aether] is leeched dry, the surrounding land is stripped of its capacity to bear forth life. For most arcane arts, a mage's own reserves of mana suffice to fuel even the most powerful incantations, but certain formidable spells from the school of black magic drink deep of the wells of life energy". From what I can gather, most disciplines of magic generally just use neutral aether when casting spells and aspect it themselves towards an element. All descriptions just refer to "aether" rather than that of a specific type, except for conjurers who tend to run on geomancer rules anyway. If spells required and used up very specific elements then I feel like we'd need multiple MP bars based on element and spells like Freeze that use ambient aether wouldn't work or would be very difficult to use in Thanalan.

If there was an actual official source that said "white mages in the 5th Astral Era did not use water magic and that's why there was an imbalance" then I'd eat my words and accept that. But I can't find anything that says that and I'm not going to let fan speculation based on gameplay mechanics of all things guide my own understanding of the game's story. If this were an actual thing then I feel like it would've been explicitly stated a long time ago.

[Supersnow845]

During the War of the Magi both sides used ambient aether to power their spells. The encyclopedia says "when [ambient aether] is leeched dry, the surrounding land is stripped of its capacity to bear forth life. For most arcane arts, a mage's own reserves of mana suffice to fuel even the most powerful incantations, but certain formidable spells from the school of black magic drink deep of the wells of life energy". From what I can gather, most disciplines of magic generally just use neutral aether when casting spells and aspect it themselves towards an element. All descriptions just refer to "aether" rather than that of a specific type, except for conjurers who tend to run on geomancer rules anyway. If spells required and used up very specific elements then I feel like we'd need multiple MP bars based on element and spells like Freeze that use ambient aether wouldn't work or would be very difficult to use in Thanalan.

If there was an actual official source that said "white mages in the 5th Astral Era did not use water magic and that's why there was an imbalance" then I'd eat my words and accept that. But I can't find anything that says that and I'm not going to let fan speculation based on gameplay mechanics of all things guide my own understanding of the game's story. If this were an actual thing then I feel like it would've been explicitly stated a long time ago.

Okay so why was water specifically left behind given we know the war of the magi was orchestrated by the ascians

If aether was drawn equally across all sources and aspected by the mage leaving behind a blight of sorts (like 16’s blight or the empty in 14) why was there was overabundance of water aether left in the source especially when the we know the ascians were trying to tip tje balance towards water and rejoin the 10th

A blight/empty situation may align with an umbral umbral calamity (like the 8th) but not a water aspected calamity, the magical arts draw deep from the lands aether and it left us with water aether, I still don’t see how that’s up for debate

[MikkoAkure]

Okay so why was water specifically left behind given we know the war of the magi was orchestrated by the ascians

If aether was drawn equally across all sources and aspected by the mage leaving behind a blight of sorts (like 16’s blight or the empty in 14) why was there was overabundance of water aether left in the source especially when the we know the ascians were trying to tip tje balance towards water and rejoin the 10th

A blight/empty situation may align with an umbral umbral calamity (like the 8th) but not a water aspected calamity, the magical arts draw deep from the lands aether and it left us with water aether, I still don’t see how that’s up for debate

Of all the potential options, “water remained because in current gameplay white mages and conjurers don’t have much going on anymore for water so the old mages must not have used water either” is the silliest one. I’m also still not sure where you got Nym and wind from either.

In ye olde 1.0 lore I remember something about the elementals being responsible for flooding the world because of the War of the Magi. Despite it being from after Yoshi-P’s takeover, that lore hasn’t been transferred over but a ton of water energy flowing into the world at once from an angry elemental leading it to getting even bigger due to calamity on another shard makes a whole lot more sense than “they didn’t use water spells” and it at least has the benefit of being explicitly stated in-game.

[Supersnow845]

Of all the potential options, “water remained because in current gameplay white mages and conjurers don’t have much going on anymore for water so the old mages must not have used water either” is the silliest one. I’m also still not sure where you got Nym and wind from either.

In ye olde 1.0 lore I remember something about the elementals being responsible for flooding the world because of the War of the Magi. Despite it being from after Yoshi-P’s takeover, that lore hasn’t been transferred over but a ton of water energy flowing into the world at once from an angry elemental leading it to getting even bigger due to calamity on another shard makes a whole lot more sense than “they didn’t use water spells” and it at least has the benefit of being explicitly stated in-game.

As far as I know that legacy plotline was dropped (especially since they didn’t have a defined direction for the calamities yet and it’s not mentioned anywhere in encyclopaedia eorzea) but I’m not necessarily saying that since we use little water it’s evidence that the war of the magi didn’t use any just that all evidence points to them drawing more of the 5 other elements than water which can be thematically relevant if that was the intended design

Water is part of conjury but there is also an explicit desire to not use water that much in current gameplay, whether that’s linked to the war of the magi or not is up for debate but the war of the magi causing the flood because they used less water than any other element is pretty hard to deny

[MikkoAkure]

Water is part of conjury but there is also an explicit desire to not use water that much in current gameplay, whether that’s linked to the war of the magi or not is up for debate but the war of the magi causing the flood because they used less water than any other element is pretty hard to deny

I denied it and it was really easy.

Nowhere at all in the game is it stated the War of the Magi had fewer water spells being cast and that's what caused the flood or that modern mages are purposefully avoiding water magic because of its links to the flood.

The easiest answer to players not having anything for water spells beyond Aquaveil, Suiton/Meisui, and BLU spells is that is was a decision from the gameplay designers rather than the writers for some reason leaving it as subtext in the lore and never talking about it outright despite how important such a fact would be. You would think that 1/6th of the elemental table being purposefully left out of the game due to story reasons would have been explicitly stated some time in the past 10 years of ARR at least, but it's not.

To suggest that gameplay mechanics are behind unexplained bits of story is like suggesting that the city-states are tiny because you can walk across them in 2 minutes in-game and there's <100 or so NPCs. Unless the game actually states something, I'm not going to take some random player's personal fanon as fact.