Button Bloat

[Ceetee]

It will be incredibly unconstructive, but... Ew. No. Heck no. The idea literally makes me shudder.

And more constructively, now: it seems hard to implement. There's no strict equivalence between mono rotation and AOE rotation in most jobs, because AOE rotation contains far fewer skills. Would the proposed change just be a sort of switch between several bar displays? That sounds more complicated than what we've got now, not to mention the lack of flexibility it implies in gameplay.

Oh absolutely. That was just an example. More just trying to say "There are ways to condense multiple buttons down into far fewer without losing the overall gameplay of the combo system"

Like, I don't think it would be a good change to make the AoE and Single Target rotation exactly the same. CERTAINLY not as a universal change. It was more an example of one kind of way the system could be implemented. But an increased focus on things akin to stances that change what action is on each button, would help give us more toys to play with, without also giving us carpal tunnel.

I just jumped to AoEs because the vast majority of endgame content doesn't use them, or uses them sparingly. They are used in the occasional add phase and that's it. The rest of the time they are taking up space. My point is that it would be far better to have some alternative use for those buttons when we don't need AoE's, which is THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE TIME.

[Merrigan]

Oh absolutely. That was just an example. More just trying to say "There are ways to condense multiple buttons down into far fewer without losing the overall gameplay of the combo system"

Like, I don't think it would be a good change to make the AoE and Single Target rotation exactly the same. CERTAINLY not as a universal change. It was more an example of one kind of way the system could be implemented. But an increased focus on things akin to stances that change what action is on each button, would help give us more toys to play with, without also giving us carpal tunnel.

I just jumped to AoEs because the vast majority of endgame content doesn't use them, or uses them sparingly. They are used in the occasional add phase and that's it. The rest of the time they are taking up space. My point is that it would be far better to have some alternative use for those buttons when we don't need AoE's, which is THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE TIME.

Hm... Yeah, okay. I understand better what you mean, and it seems more interesting than stacking a combo on the same key like in pvp. It would just have to be implemented in a more interesting way than the tank stance (clicking a button = an effect, no thought given to inserting the button into a class synergy), whether we're talking about a stance that activates AOEs or something else. In fact, I'd even find it quite interesting to have a form of "unlocking" the aoe, rather than a mono rotation / AOE rotation that are juxtaposed without any other form of interaction.

So we could imagine a kind of mono action combo, which would then transform the bar into an AOE action. It sacrifices a lot of flexibility, but at the same time, anticipating situations has always been part of this game's gameplay, so I don't think it's too crazy.

[Esmoire]

Think BLU having 24 abilities it can pick + role actions, while no doubt part of the design of having to make choices, also speaks to the intended scope of buttons. Would like if jobs are kept to a maximum of 30 buttons; a controller user can map two sets of 16 (32) and a M+kb user three hotbars (12 each for 36). Leaves room for stuff like a stat pot and flexibility for a macro or glam-specific mount or whatever. Seems fair. A few jobs at 35 buttons that definitely don't need that.

Something like SMN could definitely dare to have more.

[Ceetee]

Think BLU having 24 abilities it can pick + role actions, while no doubt part of the design of having to make choices, also speaks to the intended scope of buttons. Would like if jobs are kept to a maximum of 30 buttons; a controller user can map two sets of 16 (32) and a M+kb user three hotbars (12 each for 36). Leaves room for stuff like a stat pot and flexibility for a macro or glam-specific mount or whatever. Seems fair. A few jobs at 35 buttons that definitely don't need that.

Something like SMN could definitely dare to have more.

Oh that is ABSOLUTELY great insight, yeah. I think capping at 25 job specific buttons (again, not the same as actions. RDM has 33 endgame actions, but only spread across 24 buttons) plus the 5 additional role actions, is probably the best design decision overall.