Button Bloat

[Supersnow845]

I think it's more because of Freecure and...Enhanced Benefic? By all means, those traits need to be removed and replaced by something actually useful or moved to another ability (my pick would be the jobs' respective damage spells or DoTs to incentivise using them), but them being as they are makes sense with why the abilities don't just straight up upgrade, unfortunately.

Even if you procced freecure off glare it’s still useless above about level 45 because you would never want to cast cure 2 anyway

In general they should just drop the cost of cure 2 to avoid the problems of synced coils and then just have cure 1 upgrade to cure 2

[Burmecia]

You appear to play Paladin, so sure, there is Shield Bash still

How to tell you don't do deep dungeons without saying "i don't do deep dungeons".

[Mecia]

Im not really having button bloat issues but i have no trouble reaching keys on my KB. Still, theres many buttons that can be consolidated and apparently are going to be.

[Moqi]

Im not really having button bloat issues but i have no trouble reaching keys on my KB. Still, theres many buttons that can be consolidated and apparently are going to be.

I really want to believe those are true (not enough, but it's a good start).

[Arkdra]

We need more bloat, not less. Well, job dependent. Look at all this room for activities!

[Ceetee]

Imagine you are a PLD. After using your 1-2 AoE combo, 2 targets are left and 1 is about to die before your next GCD is available. It is wiser to just use Holy Spirit instead of Holy Circle, correct? With your proposition, I have to toggle a stance so that I get to use my ST ability. Yes you cut off extra buttons but you have introduced, not complexity, but unecessary button presses.


I am a GNB and my healer is currently KO'ed. Brutal Shell combo is kinda good and will greatly improve my survivability.. but with this, I still have to do 2 extra GCDs so I can refresh my barrier.. Same with PLD and DRK when recovering MP.

This is such an incredibly bad faith reading. I am talking about changes to the game, things that happen ever expansion. Yes your rotation is going to change. "MY DPS WOULD SUFFER IN THESE SUPER SPECIFIC NICHE SITUATIONS!" You dont even know if those combos will continue to function the same way in 2 months. Saying we can't have better designed systems on the off chance it makes you play slightly less optimally while your healer is dead is absurd.

SCH already has that. Emergency Tactics, Deployment Tactics, Recitation. These abilities do nothing on their own but they modify the properties of other abilities.. I mean, every caster/healer has it = Swiftcast. The only acceptable increase in button count is for abilities that does this.

Literally so unrelated to what I was saying that I don't understand what your point is. ET, DT and Recitation are not traits, they are skills. Swiftcast functions identically on every single caster. That is not what I was saying even remotely.

I was talking about Traits, those things we get on some levels where we don't get a new action, but which modify existing actions. Having Job specific traits that modify role actions would give more actions to each job and further cement their identity, without increasing the number of buttons we use.

For example, each tank getting a unique modification to Rampart.

[Merrigan]

Replace AoE actions with a stance that changes your single target stuff to your AoE actions.

It will be incredibly unconstructive, but... Ew. No. Heck no. The idea literally makes me shudder.

And more constructively, now: it seems hard to implement. There's no strict equivalence between mono rotation and AOE rotation in most jobs, because AOE rotation contains far fewer skills. Would the proposed change just be a sort of switch between several bar displays? That sounds more complicated than what we've got now, not to mention the lack of flexibility it implies in gameplay.

[Ceetee]

It will be incredibly unconstructive, but... Ew. No. Heck no. The idea literally makes me shudder.

And more constructively, now: it seems hard to implement. There's no strict equivalence between mono rotation and AOE rotation in most jobs, because AOE rotation contains far fewer skills. Would the proposed change just be a sort of switch between several bar displays? That sounds more complicated than what we've got now, not to mention the lack of flexibility it implies in gameplay.

Oh absolutely. That was just an example. More just trying to say "There are ways to condense multiple buttons down into far fewer without losing the overall gameplay of the combo system"

Like, I don't think it would be a good change to make the AoE and Single Target rotation exactly the same. CERTAINLY not as a universal change. It was more an example of one kind of way the system could be implemented. But an increased focus on things akin to stances that change what action is on each button, would help give us more toys to play with, without also giving us carpal tunnel.

I just jumped to AoEs because the vast majority of endgame content doesn't use them, or uses them sparingly. They are used in the occasional add phase and that's it. The rest of the time they are taking up space. My point is that it would be far better to have some alternative use for those buttons when we don't need AoE's, which is THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE TIME.

[Octavia_Deathschoicen]

What bloat, you dont even use all your buttons all the time,

Aoe rotation you set in another bar and only switch to it when more than 4, your cds can go into a bar like number 4 on controller and easy switch to it. Single target at max has 10 buttons that you can use constantly most of the things are long cds so that doesnt really count as a button, even one a controller you have a total of 168+ buttons. yet at max we have 20ish skill buttons every slot needs to be used tbh, that means outside of sprint, and limitbreak need around 164 abilitys per job

[Moqi]

What bloat, you dont even use all your buttons all the time

Yes, that's what bloat means.