Button Bloat

[Moqi]

On the former point, I can see a few other reasons they might not want to. Like branching combos, and it is still technically a possible point of failure/stress. On the latter point, I don't think that is a good reason as to why. If pvp'ing combos meant that the leveling experience became worse, they could just move some abilities to lower levels. They need to do that anyways really.

Branching combos just wouldn't get merged, obviously. Most button bloat comes from tank combos anyway, or DPS with doubled up skills for AoE/single target that do the same thing and waste space for nothing since there are very few serious encounters where AoE rotation matters (Samurai being the worst offender).

[rawker]

Should they really want to cut button bloat from SCH, these came into my mind:

1. Make pet movement be a default control you can bind keys on For example:

   • CTRL + Left click = Move (Pet)
   • CTRL + Right click = Attack (Pet)

2. Heel can be replaced by adding a trait to Summon Eos, making its cast time instant when it is currently summoned.
3. Stay is redundant as the current Place command already tells the pet to stay where it is placed. It can also be made into another key bind.

With those, 4 buttons are already freed up. As for the abilities... Physick on SCH can be removed and increase the potency of Embrace. There are lots more they can do to simplify without turning SCH into lol-SMN

tldr, Pet commands can be reworked to be part of your character's keybind.

[Ceetee]

I would LOVE to have more 'conditional' buttons that hold 3 or 4 abilities on them actually, like how Red Mage and Summoner reuse buttons for several different phases of their rotation. It doesn't even have to be big stuff on the same scale as that. Stuff like making Hypercharge turn into Heat Blast once you use it. Replace AoE actions with a stance that changes your single target stuff to your AoE actions.

As has been mentioned plenty of times I also wouldn't mind getting single button combos like in PvP, but I know that's more controversial.

Something I haven't seen mentioned before though is the potential of jobs getting traits that upgrade role skills into unique abilities that still maintain their original function, but still have some other use as well. Would be a good way to add a lot more depth to the actions without increasing button bloat.

We could easily add a dozen or more skills and still take up LESS buttons than we currently do, if they just applied them we'll. There is no reason to waste an entire button slot on something that can only be pressed directly after something else, and is useless in all other contexts.

[rawker]

I would LOVE to have more 'conditional' buttons that hold 3 or 4 abilities on them actually, like how Red Mage and Summoner reuse buttons for several different phases of their rotation. It doesn't even have to be big stuff on the same scale as that. Stuff like making Hypercharge turn into Heat Blast once you use it. Replace AoE actions with a stance that changes your single target stuff to your AoE actions.

Imagine you are a PLD. After using your 1-2 AoE combo, 2 targets are left and 1 is about to die before your next GCD is available. It is wiser to just use Holy Spirit instead of Holy Circle, correct? With your proposition, I have to toggle a stance so that I get to use my ST ability. Yes you cut off extra buttons but you have introduced, not complexity, but unecessary button presses.

As has been mentioned plenty of times I also wouldn't mind getting single button combos like in PvP, but I know that's more controversial.

I am a GNB and my healer is currently KO'ed. Brutal Shell combo is kinda good and will greatly improve my survivability.. but with this, I still have to do 2 extra GCDs so I can refresh my barrier.. Same with PLD and DRK when recovering MP.

Something I haven't seen mentioned before though is the potential of jobs getting traits that upgrade role skills into unique abilities that still maintain their original function, but still have some other use as well. Would be a good way to add a lot more depth to the actions without increasing button bloat.

SCH already has that. Emergency Tactics, Deployment Tactics, Recitation. These abilities do nothing on their own but they modify the properties of other abilities.. I mean, every caster/healer has it = Swiftcast. The only acceptable increase in button count is for abilities that does this.

We could easily add a dozen or more skills and still take up LESS buttons than we currently do, if they just applied them we'll. There is no reason to waste an entire button slot on something that can only be pressed directly after something else, and is useless in all other contexts.

See above.

[Mecia]

Im not really having button bloat issues but i have no trouble reaching keys on my KB. Still, theres many buttons that can be consolidated and apparently are going to be.

[Moqi]

Im not really having button bloat issues but i have no trouble reaching keys on my KB. Still, theres many buttons that can be consolidated and apparently are going to be.

I really want to believe those are true (not enough, but it's a good start).

[Arkdra]

We need more bloat, not less. Well, job dependent. Look at all this room for activities!

[Ceetee]

Imagine you are a PLD. After using your 1-2 AoE combo, 2 targets are left and 1 is about to die before your next GCD is available. It is wiser to just use Holy Spirit instead of Holy Circle, correct? With your proposition, I have to toggle a stance so that I get to use my ST ability. Yes you cut off extra buttons but you have introduced, not complexity, but unecessary button presses.


I am a GNB and my healer is currently KO'ed. Brutal Shell combo is kinda good and will greatly improve my survivability.. but with this, I still have to do 2 extra GCDs so I can refresh my barrier.. Same with PLD and DRK when recovering MP.

This is such an incredibly bad faith reading. I am talking about changes to the game, things that happen ever expansion. Yes your rotation is going to change. "MY DPS WOULD SUFFER IN THESE SUPER SPECIFIC NICHE SITUATIONS!" You dont even know if those combos will continue to function the same way in 2 months. Saying we can't have better designed systems on the off chance it makes you play slightly less optimally while your healer is dead is absurd.

SCH already has that. Emergency Tactics, Deployment Tactics, Recitation. These abilities do nothing on their own but they modify the properties of other abilities.. I mean, every caster/healer has it = Swiftcast. The only acceptable increase in button count is for abilities that does this.

Literally so unrelated to what I was saying that I don't understand what your point is. ET, DT and Recitation are not traits, they are skills. Swiftcast functions identically on every single caster. That is not what I was saying even remotely.

I was talking about Traits, those things we get on some levels where we don't get a new action, but which modify existing actions. Having Job specific traits that modify role actions would give more actions to each job and further cement their identity, without increasing the number of buttons we use.

For example, each tank getting a unique modification to Rampart.

[Merrigan]

Replace AoE actions with a stance that changes your single target stuff to your AoE actions.

It will be incredibly unconstructive, but... Ew. No. Heck no. The idea literally makes me shudder.

And more constructively, now: it seems hard to implement. There's no strict equivalence between mono rotation and AOE rotation in most jobs, because AOE rotation contains far fewer skills. Would the proposed change just be a sort of switch between several bar displays? That sounds more complicated than what we've got now, not to mention the lack of flexibility it implies in gameplay.

[Ceetee]

It will be incredibly unconstructive, but... Ew. No. Heck no. The idea literally makes me shudder.

And more constructively, now: it seems hard to implement. There's no strict equivalence between mono rotation and AOE rotation in most jobs, because AOE rotation contains far fewer skills. Would the proposed change just be a sort of switch between several bar displays? That sounds more complicated than what we've got now, not to mention the lack of flexibility it implies in gameplay.

Oh absolutely. That was just an example. More just trying to say "There are ways to condense multiple buttons down into far fewer without losing the overall gameplay of the combo system"

Like, I don't think it would be a good change to make the AoE and Single Target rotation exactly the same. CERTAINLY not as a universal change. It was more an example of one kind of way the system could be implemented. But an increased focus on things akin to stances that change what action is on each button, would help give us more toys to play with, without also giving us carpal tunnel.

I just jumped to AoEs because the vast majority of endgame content doesn't use them, or uses them sparingly. They are used in the occasional add phase and that's it. The rest of the time they are taking up space. My point is that it would be far better to have some alternative use for those buttons when we don't need AoE's, which is THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE TIME.