We need to compromise as a player base

[Merrigan]

Which is?.. I am genuinely interested, as I see so many of them, but none of them look more official than the others?

There are two threads with lots of answers, so we might as well pack on them.

We've got benchmark complaints up to page 12.

[Erin1491]

I definitely agree that a lot of the complaints and comparisons aren't really a fair one to one side by side comparison. I've seen so many I entirely different lighting situations and people are just like well rip my character. There are a lot of legitimate complaints also though that I do agree with so don't take it as discrediting everyone. I just think people get riled up and it spirals into an echo chamber of "new graphics bad"

In reality we are going to have to accept that some small things might be different in order to move forward with the games graphics. Things that should not be compromised on are things like the keeper fangs, or whatever is going on with elezens facial rig when emoting etc.

On the other hand I encourage some to give it more of a fair chance try all the different lighting and spin the camera to see how the real time lighting affects lips and eyes because it makes a bigger difference than you think. They mentioned at the fan fests that small tweaks might be necessary to get the original look back. I'm not saying the benchmark is perfect by all means there definitely needs to be adjustments. But it's certainly not as doom and gloom as these forums make it out to be.

Even if you're still not happy try to be more constructive, be specific about what you don't like instead of saying "wow my character is ruined" or "rip my character" This tells the devs nothing.

[cutestfox]

[Merrigan]

I definitely agree that a lot of the complaints and comparisons aren't really a fair one to one side by side comparison. I've seen so many I entirely different lighting situations and people are just like well rip my character. There are a lot of legitimate complaints also though that I do agree with so don't take it as discrediting everyone. I just think people get riled up and it spirals into an echo chamber of "new graphics bad"

In reality we are going to have to accept that some small things might be different in order to move forward with the games graphics. Things that should not be compromised on are things like the keeper fangs, or whatever is going on with elezens facial rig when emoting etc.

On the other hand I encourage some to give it more of a fair chance try all the different lighting and spin the camera to see how the real time lighting affects lips and eyes because it makes a bigger difference than you think. They mentioned at the fan fests that small tweaks might be necessary to get the original look back. I'm not saying the benchmark is perfect by all means there definitely needs to be adjustments. But it's certainly not as doom and gloom as these forums make it out to be.

Even if you're still not happy try to be more constructive, be specific about what you don't like instead of saying "wow my character is ruined" or "rip my character" This tells the devs nothing.

I agree. Although, like you, I find that some of the criticisms are justified, some of the comparisons are rather over-reactionary. Sometimes people post images with a comment that suggests their character has changed completely; then you get to the screen... And it's hard to see the changes in question.

(... Which is a problem in itself).

I have the impression that, for some, nothing could have satisfied them in the sense that they are so attached to their character's physique that the slightest change becomes blasphemy.

Just so there's no need for unnecessary vindictiveness: I repeat, some of the criticisms are well and truly justified.

[AirisRay]

On the other hand I encourage some to give it more of a fair chance try all the different lighting and spin the camera to see how the real time lighting affects lips and eyes because it makes a bigger difference than you think.

There is not enough space on the forum to post here all "before and after" screenshots that I took from dozens of angles and lighting so different that you can’t even imagine. And also a frame-by-frame benchmark.
I say this completely seriously. It will take several dozen pages.
I know how and what light can affects.

I specifically attach screenshots with lighting in which the defect is most visible. Because I want this defect to be seen by SE, is this logical? I can attach here screenshots where she stands back to the light and there is no defect at all. Oh, she's beautiful there, of course. With a dark flat face.

What's the point of this? What's the point of giving advice to "turn the camera and change the lighting"?

In the cutscene, how do you turn the camera? In the game, I also have to constantly turn the camera away from the light, right? I will have a wonderful game, the essence of which will be “rotate the camera so that the character does not look like a freak”, thanks for the advice.

[Turtledeluxe]

While I was very excited about the graphics update, I can't help but feel very down about losing most of my characters, specially my main ones. I've tried to accept this to the best of my ability and design something new, but the thing is I'm not liking the way faces look right now in general, so anything I could make now will be worse than what I had before.

This whole matter has been so discouraging to me that I'm considering just quitting the game, as there's no point playing a character I don't like.

I think SE should only address obvious execution errors and leave all stylistic choices ie "my nose is different" the same, and see how many of you leave.

Heck, add it to the exit poll "I am unsubscribing bc none of the new options allow me to make a character I am happy with".

Unless something's obviously uncanny, outright missing from before and could easily be a toggle (glossy lips for example), disproportionate/low textured, etc it's just the new visuals and I suspect a loud, tiny minority are the ones who can't get over it. And I also think you would have hated anything regardless.

To be clear, I think criticism that is specific, supplied with non edited photos that are clear and undeniable, is fine. I think slamming the dev team off the bat, threatening to quit the game, is (as described in another post) makes you seem disingenuous, as though you wanted it to fail from the get go.

[Merrigan]

I think SE should only address obvious execution errors and leave all stylistic choices ie "my nose is different" the same, and see how many of you leave.

Heck, add it to the exit poll "I am unsubscribing bc none of the new options allow me to make a character I am happy with".

Unless something's obviously uncanny, outright missing from before and could easily be a toggle (glossy lips for example), disproportionate/low textured, etc it's just the new visuals and I suspect a loud, tiny minority are the ones who can't get over it. And I also think you would have hated anything regardless.

Wow's graphical update complaint thread PTSD

[decomposer]

I'm not in the camp of "roll back everything the way that it was" because I think that's unfeasible and also disregards some genuine, much-needed improvements.

That being said, some of the "technical advances" seem more like mistakes or crunched corner-cutting, especially where the character models are concerned. For instance, applying one clan's skin textures to the entire race, or every race now sharing the same UV map (great for modders who wish to make cross-race makeup options, but not necessarily great for facial definition in base game.) Not to mention the literal bugs I've seen with hair textures, neck seams, etc.

One of the biggest "mistakes" (using quotes here, because I don't know if it's an actual mistake) is that it seems like the subsurface scattering (SSS) was not mapped properly, and instead extends to the entire head. This is why characters are looking waxen, self-lit even in low light, and why skin tones are changing per environments (ie. characters looking green in the La Noscea character creator portion, because the skin translucency is cranked up and is drinking up green environs instead of reflecting light properly.) I think this would also explain why for the female raen, horn colors are changing depending on skin tone, why dark hair changes 5 shades lighter depending on hairstyle, and why viera ears are turning into glowsticks.

There was a really good thread on this here.

A lot of people are saying "it's just lighting," and one, that is an issue in itself but two, a glimpse around the forums shows that features themselves have changed. Sometimes drastically. A lot of the times poorly.

I made a graph about lighting and skintone. But I also made one about features. And this is just my one, singular elf.



I think myself and most others would be happy to compromise. I would even tolerate the jank candle-effect on the skin if I could just have my character's lips, nose, chin, and eyes back. It's okay if he looks fine or better to others! But that's not (my) character who I've played, gposed, drawn, written, and commissioned for years ):

[Windfire]

I think SE should only address obvious execution errors and leave all stylistic choices ie "my nose is different" the same, and see how many of you leave.

Heck, add it to the exit poll "I am unsubscribing bc none of the new options allow me to make a character I am happy with".

Unless something's obviously uncanny, outright missing from before and could easily be a toggle (glossy lips for example), disproportionate/low textured, etc it's just the new visuals and I suspect a loud, tiny minority are the ones who can't get over it. And I also think you would have hated anything regardless.

Considering I left two games that "updated" characters already, I have zero problem leaving a third (have never been on the sunk cost train). That said, given Japanese players are complaining about many of the same things, I will stick around long enough to see if they make changes.

[cutestfox]

In the cutscene, how do you turn the camera? In the game, I also have to constantly turn the camera away from the light, right? I will have a wonderful game, the essence of which will be “rotate the camera so that the character does not look like a freak”, thanks for the advice.

I'm in the same boat, I have over 100k screens of my character, unchanged since 2.0, never unsubbed from the game, using the same face as you and I know exactly how it's meant to be
I can tolerate loss of detail or the weird lighting even, but that facial sculpt is completely destroyed
Its warped, disfigured, that mouth is just straight up wrong