Riot Blade > Rage of Halone Needs Work - Some Ideas

[Ladon]

Riot Blade > Rage of Halone Needs Work - Some Ideas


Hello. First of all I am fairly new to FF14, however have played many other MMOs in the past. I typically main tank classes in games so naturally I decided to go with Gladiator/Paladin as my main in this game. I wanted to share my thoughts on the particular combo Riot Blade > Rage of Halone as I believe it can be reworked from being a highly situational combo to a bread and butter combo of both classes. I know some of these concerns have been brought up before but I'd like to bring focus to this particular combo.

First to outline the issues I see with this combo:

• Combo requires positioning that a tank class should never find themselves in. The combo could be useful in the rare case that you have 2000 TP stored and the enemy turns it's back to you, however you will find that this conditions will almost never be fulfilled in actual party play. The other way is to force yourself to the back of the enemy, however this is almost always highly undesirable as you will be flipping the enemy after the combo which can cause positioning issues for the other DDs in the party.
• Risk of use is too high. We already have a very limited TP pool to work with. Add to the fact that actually landing weaponskills is a gamble in itself. In a party where you are expected to maximize enmity, your TP resource is almost always better used elsewhere such as Fastblade > Flatblade. Wasting 2000 TP on a miss can be disastrous and considering that in the grand scheme of things the actual damage of this combo and the low damage enmity it actually generates simply does not make it worth it. And we haven't even mentioned the additional positioning requirements to use it yet.
• Potential damage of the class suffers overall because this combo is never used. Applying the two above outlined issues there is a major dependency of the classes potential damage output on paper versus reality. The class and job already sacrifice a lot of damage for little return and it's reflected in the general view of the class. The ineffectiveness of this combo just greatly compounds general issues present with the class and job.

In general Gladiator and Paladin suffer from the same common issue found in many other MMOs when there are two competing tank classes: Slow and Steady never wins the race. Ideally a party with a Paladin versus a Warrior as a tank should see nearly equal single target DPS output or Paladins will be doomed to play second string which is far too common in games with both a defensive tank versus offensive tank. I think this can largely be accomplished with this combo alone with the following changes:

• Remove the positioning requirement Riot Blade or change it to front facing requirements. This is the number one must to make the combo viable rather than a highly situational option. The will give us far more opportunities to actually use the combo.
• Reduce TP requirements of Riot Blade to 1500. This will help lower the risk of using the combo in the event of a failure. Again the goal is to make the combo something worthwhile to use.
• Change the debuff mechanics of Riot Blade. This is an important change along with the rest. The idea is to make the physical defense debuff stack with all other debuffs, make the duration reasonable and change of the debuff landing very high. What this does is give Gladiator/Paladin a group utility that effectively increases the DPS of all other melee in the party. The overall group DPS increase will help close the damage gap a paladin brings to a party versus a warrior.
• Add a magic evasion debuff to Rage of Halone. Similar concept to above but effectively increases the magic DPS of a party when a Gladiator/Paladin is present in the party. Again this would be a unique, stacking debuff.
• Increase TP cost of Rage of Halone to 2000TP (?). May not be necessary but just some thoughts on considering overall balance. Since we're adding an additional, potentially useful effect to Rage of Halone that wouldn't require it be in a combo it's cost may need to be increased to compensate. It would also fill that 2000TP weapon skill gap.

Let me know your thoughts. I understand there are many other areas of possible improvement for GLD/PLD but please try to keep the discussion restricted to these two particular skills. Though understandably there may be impacts in other areas I haven't considered that may need to be brought up.

[Molly_Millions]

With a decent DRG on a CC Speed run, for example, you will find the mob has it's back (or at least side) towards you occasionally. The combo is usefull as is.

[REDace0]

The positioning aspect can be overcome through gameplay sometimes. It's the same problem with trying to land Goring Blade's debuff, although slightly easier. In either case, you wait for the enemy to charge a WS or, with good timing, wait for the mob to do a normal attack, immediately run through and activate it as you pass through their middle. Naturally this is tough and doesn't always work. It is possible to do this without permanently or temporarily flipping the mob by immediately running back through as your WS activates, but avoiding the latter is rare in my experience.

Another option for Riot Blade is to save up 2250 TP and start with Shield Bash.

I like the positional requirement, but we already get that dynamic from Goring Blade, so maybe I wouldn't miss it. Overall I do like your changes and don't see any major balance problems.

[stanleyyoung]

how i see pld all its ws combos need to be activated from the front point simple. pld is not a dd so their is really no need to be behind or the the sides of a mob, since most likey we are tanking a mob the last thing we wanna do is change the mob positioning and cause an actual dd to miss their combos.

i can agree with few of u guys about the additional effects are done with being on the sides or back of mob. also i would really like to see shield bash along with wardrum included in the combos mainly due to the fact they have little relavent/practical use this will give players a reason to use them more for enimty+ and some dmg.
example phanlax-wardrum-circle slash
example fast blade- flat blade- shield bash

[Brannigan]

also i would really like to see shield bash along with wardrum included in the combos mainly due to the fact they have little relavent/practical use

War Drum is pretty okay for AOE hate. Shield Bash has no practical use? It's an amazing on-demand stun that you'll almost always have available due to its low TP cost and the fact that it's not used in a combo. Pretty much every boss out there (except Ifrit and Garuda) is susceptible to stun as well.

Compare it to the other stuns in this game:
Pounce - used as a combo opener
Steel Cyclone - standard combo ender
The dragoon stuns - both used in combos
Thundara - If your BLM uses the Thundara stun they lose their best damage spell for like a million years
Rain of Death - comboooo

Shield Bash is the only one you can just let sit there and use specifically as a stun to interrupt an enemy.

As far as Riot Blade goes, I don't really have a problem with the rear requirement (though it's not ideal), but you're right in that the TP cost is pretty prohibitive. I can usually find a few good opportunities in the fight to sneak in a rear attack, but 2000 TP is too much. Halone's damage is also a bit low when you consider the duration of animation lock and other combo requirements.

[buritoslicer]

My apologies in advanced, but I don't think your suggestions are in the better interest for the game. While Paladin is a bit difficult to use, it is the best tanking choice to use for most of the end game content.

If you don't mind listening a bit to my points, heres my response to your first list.

Riot Blade > Rage of Halone Needs Work - Some Ideas

First to outline the issues I see with this combo:

• Combo requires positioning
• Risk of use is too high.
• Potential damage of the class suffers overall because this combo is never used.

Combo requires positioning = Skill and propper timing. My best advice is to time your movement based on when the enemy attacks you. I can guarantee a better success chance.

Risk too high = We don' t want to dumb down the game, each class/job in this game should require some risk when properly doing the job. We don't want WoW/Rift/Aion tactics where it doesn't matter if you mess up.

Potential Damage of class suffers overall because this combo is never used = False statement, your level 45... Please level to 50 (in fact get your conjurer and warrior up too) and come back after you have done some decent end game content.

End game Uses for Riot blade:

Ifrit: After Hellfire, Ifrit's rear is faced at you.... open up with this combo, then go back to your tank spot!

Moogle: Use on every mog (when possible) during 1st phase to boost damage on mogs. 2nd phase use on King mog when everyone is focusing on kiling it.

I've also used it properly in skirmish, garuda, and many other end game activites. I would say your post is a bit premature to complain about something you have little knowlege about. I am for a game that requires skill to play your class... not dumbed down easy mode crap.

Hopefully I wasn't too harsh, but it's because this is a touchy subject to me. I have supported Gladiator/Paladin since launch, and it is the job that I perform best at.
/endrant

[Alerith]

Just, no.

The Combo itself works just fine, and if you're not using it because you're scared, then you need to practice more.

Take Ifrit for example. When he hunches over to cast eruptions under someone, or when he activates plumes, this is the perfect chance to run behind him and nail him with Riot Blade. Even then, you can get behind him and whack him with it regardless of what move he's doing, as long as it isn't the knockback.

This is also EXCEEDINGLY easy on Miser's Mistress considering she's very easy to stun and she only turns to WS/Breath.

We already have frontal activating combos and one that doesn't even require technical positioning. A rear combo WS isn't unreasonable.

[buritoslicer]

Just, no.

The Combo itself works just fine, and if you're not using it because you're scared, then you need to practice more.

Take Ifrit for example. When he hunches over to cast eruptions under someone, or when he activates plumes, this is the perfect chance to run behind him and nail him with Riot Blade. Even then, you can get behind him and whack him with it regardless of what move he's doing, as long as it isn't the knockback.

This is also EXCEEDINGLY easy on Miser's Mistress considering she's very easy to stun and she only turns to WS/Breath.

We already have frontal activating combos and one that doesn't even require technical positioning. A rear combo WS isn't unreasonable.

Truth

/10char

[Arkine]

There is no clipping the current version, lock-off and run through the mob as you use riot which will trigger the combo and then back to your spot and use halone.

I do want it to be a frontal combo though.

[Duelle]

While I know where the OP is coming from and agree with the notion of PLD needing changes, I don't think that Riot Blade was meant to be bread and butter in a DPS rotation. The cooldowns are too restrictive. We might be able to change that if PLD/GLA had a proc that reset Riot Blade's cooldown on proc.

In general Gladiator and Paladin suffer from the same common issue found in many other MMOs when there are two competing tank classes: Slow and Steady never wins the race. Ideally a party with a Paladin versus a Warrior as a tank should see nearly equal single target DPS output or Paladins will be doomed to play second string which is far too common in games with both a defensive tank versus offensive tank.

This part I definitely agree with. Offensive tank vs defensive tank never pans out well because of the way players react to them. WAR and PLD could be make different mechanically while still having both aim for the same results survivability and DPS-wise. I can't see any other approach to tank design succeed in making all tank classes equally useful and desirable.