[Dawntrail] Benchmark Graphics Update - Hellsguard Roegadyn (Smudgegate 2024)

[azaleai]

If you've got time, there's a general Roegadyn complaints thread here and a face 2 thread here. Would be so thankful if you took the time to leave your feedback in those threads too!


There is an eye thread here too!

Ooo, I didn't spot those before. I'll get to work on a full writeup of all my complaints in a bit

[Anarnee]

Ooo, I didn't spot those before. I'll get to work on a full writeup of all my complaints in a bit

Thanks so much! Since less folks play Roegadyn I've been trying to point folks in the right direction and keep it compiled in hopes that we get heard too. Your write up and shots of how that shadow lays weird are a good catch. I use a different option so I only really noticed that the set I use is thinner.

[Zero-ELEC]

I was kind of hoping with the new benchmark this would be solved but I'm kinda saddened that the ash marking is equally as indistinct as it was before, at least from my quick perusal.

[Laute]

I was kind of hoping with the new benchmark this would be solved but I'm kinda saddened that the ash marking is equally as indistinct as it was before, at least from my quick perusal.

I concur. I checked this morning and it seems like nothing was changed. I wasn't hopeful given how few of us play roegadyn, let alone hellsguard, but it's still gone. I have very few hopes this feedback will be addressed.

I'd add images but I'm out of pocket and don't have access atm. I'll reply later when I can snag them.

[Sui-Kune]

I have permission from faiarrow to repost their translated post regarding Hellsguard Roegadyn from the JP megathread.

(Original post in Japanese here [#1229]).

Thank you for posting the updated benchmark.

Even though f!roe face 2 has been updated, I still have some feedback I'd like to give.
Here (#989) [Japanese; related to Benchmark 1.0] is a link to my initial feedback. Save for the shape of the nose all other issues have been ignored.



①The f!roe pupils are now black. Black pupils change the impression of the eyes and that affects the whole face.

② The shape of the nose has been corrected, but the nose ash does not look nice at all even on the lightest skintone. It's odd that a very beloved feature of the hellsguard has changed. I think it would be more acceptable if this was an option in the character maker (to change it light/dark) instead. This image is my face 3 character. She's the lightest skintone you can get on a hellsguard and her mark is practically invisible.



③There are still issues with the eyebrows. The following post is a great example:

However. Femroe face 2 brow creases are still. completely and utterly painted on. There is NO data on the normal map, so the brow creases just look plasticy and wierd.



The complete and utter lack of any shadows on the brow give the impression of the forehead, brow ridge and bridge of the nose being a completely different shape - smooth and airbrushy.

Here's a screenshot of the eyebrows from the benchmark. It looks like my character has filled in the outline of their eyebrows, making them look too long.



④ The philtrum is in an awkward position. From the side it looks OK but front on it's just two straight lines. That is not how a philtrum anatomically works, it should angle outward to meet the cupids bow of the lips.


I understand that female roegadyn is the smallest playerbase... but these are things that can't be fixed with a Fantasia.

[azaleai]

Ooo, thanks to faiarrow for including my post in that, I was just hopping over here to rehash my concerns

I was super hopeful that I was mistaken about the normal data being missing in the first benchmark and it was just lighting not being defined enough to show it... but I'm now certain there's no detail there. I don't want to be utterly smoothed out and painted looking, that's not the vibe I chose when I designed the character...

[SeriousPan]

I was kind of hoping with the new benchmark this would be solved but I'm kinda saddened that the ash marking is equally as indistinct as it was before, at least from my quick perusal.

It sucks playing a race with such a small playerbase. Miqo'te got to make a big fuss about the fangs, and rightly so, but we don't have enough sway in the community to get the same kind of attention they did for our 'iconic' feature.

[faiarrow]

Ooo, thanks to faiarrow for including my post in that, I was just hopping over here to rehash my concerns .

No issue - you gave the best illustration of the exact problem I was staring at the whole time so it was important to share and translate as I concur it's the exact issue you've pointed out.

Thank you Sui for posting on my behalf, I've got no energy left in me after seeing they didn't address anything beyond correcting the nose sculpting on face 2. My other mainly played femroe (the pale white/gold coloured one in the post) got brutalised even more in this v1.1 update to the benchmark, and my main is just uncomfortably off. I'd say if we'd had any hellsguard shown prior (we've only had seawolf rep 99% of the showcases) to the benchmark(s) we might've had more of a chance regarding our defining racial traits having vocal feedback, but given I and many others in the community provided feedback about the eyes as far back as 2023 I can't help but feel like we're just forced to "like" what they're giving us as the smallest player base.

It's insulting, upsetting, and frankly really piss poor communication. If this is what the art direction is meant to be going forward it holds nothing true to the THRICE STATED management promise of 'keeping the image of your character'.

The ENG community mentality of "you're getting a free fantasia just adjust it" is awful. All the problems we've been providing feedback for cannot be fixed with a fantasia save for changing to an entirely different race. This is 100% no longer lighting issues. This is model issues. This is the nose ash being made so light on the flat diffuse it becomes invisible on 95% of the available skintones of the hellsguard, and the remaining 5% who can see it somewhat it's very muted. I can't fantasia that. Not unless they adjust the CC to have a light/dark option.

I have played Sko for 9 years and I can't fathom taking her current state into DT.

[Mouthbone]

I shared my feedback on the JP forum, reposting the original version here:

I appreciate the changes made to Hellsguard male roegadyn face 4, they are noticeable and faithful to the original design.

However, I have feedback regarding some features of the update:

1. In the 1.1 version of the benchmark, there is a very prominent lip gloss effect in certain lighting conditions, enabled by default:


As you can see, in direct lighting and during nighttime, the lip gloss effect is very noticeable.
Please note that no lipstick was applied in these screenshots. In the original design, there was no lip gloss applied to the lips by default. I believe that the lip gloss should be an opt-in feature.
However, in overhead lighting, the lip gloss effect is subtle:

I am fine with this, I feel like this amount of lip gloss is natural.

2. The Hellsguard ash nose is too subtle in the 1.1 benchmark:

I appreciate that the signature Hellsguard nose now has a more natural smudged look, however, I feel that it is too subtle in the 1.1 benchmark compared to the original design. In certain lighting conditions, it can be confused for a shadow. I think that the Hellsguard nose is an important part of their design and should be preserved, it's charming and makes you stand out among others.

3. The head hair and beard hair are mismatched in the 1.1 benchmark:

In the original design, the head hair and beard hair stay the same color in the direct lighting. Only some shine is applied to the head hair.
On the other hand, in the 1.1 benchmark the head hair and beard hair look mismatched. The head hair becomes a shade lighter and it looks like it is dyed a different color. This looks very jarring and I think it should be adjusted.

4 The beard is floating above the face:

The beard is not attached to the face and it looks very unnatural. This is a very common issue, it would be very nice if it could be addressed in the graphics update.

This is all of the complaints that I have regarding the graphics update.
As mentioned before, thank you for your hard work and I hope that you will consider my feedback.

I encourage people here to make their voices heard, as it seems that there are not many people complaining about the lack of the Hellsguard nose.

[SeriousPan]

Thanks to you and Faia for spreading our grievances into the JP Discussions. It's very much appreciated.