Character graphical changes are NOT in an acceptable state, please make it optional

[Loggos]

This raises an interesting thought. If you and someone else have the same character look, and you perceive it negatively while they perceive it positively, who is correct? Who do the developers listen to?

I'm not saying you're wrong or even referring to you specifically, I'm just thinking about being in the dev's shoes and it seems like quite a pickle. How do you design around individual perception, which is different for every one of the millions of people playing the game?

I certainly don't envy being in their position right now. lol

That is a very good point and I'd say (in an ideal world where it would be possible): don't put away with old options but keep the new ones too. Like this players who prefer their old look are happy and people who prefer the upgrade are happy.

From a realistic business point though I do think it's a risky move to actively resculpt certain features that have always been there and that, in a character driven game, players have grown attached to. I can totally live with the lighting changes and how it would affect my char. But I see no reason to go out of their way and completely alter established features. So many people love m!viera face 3's mouth for example. So is it a good decision to resculpt it? Or would it be better to keep something so beloved and add more options (since the new mouth has now already been created anyway).

No one would be right or wrong there, but it is exactly why it was important to carefully preserve the existing feature sets. And present all alterations as optional features, not changing the bases. Otherwise they are robbing people of characters they might have known for years in exchange for something new people just found out they actually like more.
There should not have been such a choice to begin with. It’s rather sad.

You said it better but by that point I had already posted haha. I completely agree!

[Evergrey]

This raises an interesting thought. If you and someone else have the same character look, and you perceive it negatively while they perceive it positively, who is correct? Who do the developers listen to?

I'm not saying you're wrong or even referring to you specifically, I'm just thinking about being in the dev's shoes and it seems like quite a pickle. How do you design around individual perception, which is different for every one of the millions of people playing the game?

I certainly don't envy being in their position right now. lol

I said the exact same thing, not word by word ofc a day or two ago.
It's natural that people react on the emotions that effects themselves.
But there's always more sides than just one to a story.

In the end, I think that feedback is what can be done right now.
But in the end it's up to the developers.
It's their game and they have a vision for it.
If they can make changes to appease people and it's possible for them to do so then sure.
But if they can't I just hope that people can accept it and do the best of the situation and not keep on complaining for months or more once things are done and final.

[LlymlaenGreene]

This raises an interesting thought. If you and someone else have the same character look, and you perceive it negatively while they perceive it positively, who is correct? Who do the developers listen to?

I'm not saying you're wrong or even referring to you specifically, I'm just thinking about being in the dev's shoes and it seems like quite a pickle. How do you design around individual perception, which is different for every one of the millions of people playing the game?

I certainly don't envy being in their position right now. lol

sorry to interfere, but if perception is such a subjective thing and there is a very fine line between like and not, then maybe developers shouldn't change what people like, but add new faces, hairstyles, fangs and a lot of other cool things as a new feature, I mean face 7, lips 8, and not to change what people have loved for years, and then try to please everyone * which of course will not work*. And for existing models, just add HD textures. Of course, this is only if it is possible * because they could have rewritten the animation engine itself and therefore redesigned the textures properly. Just add new character types that the developers want to make for us, but also let us use the old ones that still look amazing in my opinion!

[Fawkes]

This raises an interesting thought. If you and someone else have the same character look, and you perceive it negatively while they perceive it positively, who is correct? Who do the developers listen to?

I'm not saying you're wrong or even referring to you specifically, I'm just thinking about being in the dev's shoes and it seems like quite a pickle. How do you design around individual perception, which is different for every one of the millions of people playing the game?

I certainly don't envy being in their position right now. lol

That was what I thought when I heard someone say that Korean players liked the Au Ra pouty lips.

I still think it's possible that some or most of the major differences were unintentional mistakes or some sort of outsourced mix-up. In which case they'd most likely revert to the original style unless there was overwhelming support for the new one.

Though I guess even if they were on purpose I would think they'd revert them unless it was clear nearly everyone wanted them. If it were a 50/50 split then sticking with the status quo is the safer bet, they can always just weave in some false hope about "maybe we'll expand character creation some day and add it back" for the people who want the new thing.

[AirisRay]

This raises an interesting thought. If you and someone else have the same character look, and you perceive it negatively while they perceive it positively, who is correct? Who do the developers listen to?

I'm not saying you're wrong or even referring to you specifically, I'm just thinking about being in the dev's shoes and it seems like quite a pickle. How do you design around individual perception, which is different for every one of the millions of people playing the game?

I certainly don't envy being in their position right now. lol

This is a very simple question and I have a very simple answer to it.

They just had to do what they promised and what they did with some of the characters: delicate precision in improving them. Some characters were improved without changing their facial features (or changing them so exquisitely that there is almost no difference). And some have lost their usual appearance due to changes. And of course, in my opinion, the priority here is for the people who have played these characters for years.

For those who wanted some changes, the developers could later add additional facial features to the CC.
By the way, I wouldn’t mind diversity either. But diversity should be of our personal choice. This is where the root of the problem lies.

And in that case everyone would be happy. And there wouldn’t be so many topics and sad people on this forum now. Everyone would continue to wait impatiently for 7.0. And we would discuss beautiful new graphics.

[CidHeiral]

I've tried something to illustrate why for some people certain changes may completely alter a character's perceived personality and why people like me are unhappy about it.

-snip-

This is a well written and reasonable post. I don't think it looks like a totally different character, but I can see what you mean in your examples and why you would take issue with the changes. Well done.

[Evergrey]

I've tried something to illustrate why for some people certain changes may completely alter a character's perceived personality and why people like me are unhappy about it.

I hope with this I can communicate a bit better how some of the changes feel to me (and perhaps to some other people) and why something seemingly small like resculpting a mouth can be "such a big deal" and lead to people saying "this looks like a different person".

I have drawn two pictures of my EW char and my DT char (full disclosure, I traced it and just stylised her features):

The goal was not to 1:1 trace her features and accurately document the differences (I've done that here).
It was to depict how I would interpret, capture and stylise her personality if someone asked me to draw the character in the respective screenshot.

It's about the vibe/feeling/emotion I get when looking at the EW and the DT models.
That's why her features are exaggerated to be more stern/cute.

For others who haven't looked at a character for x amount of time the changes are slim, maybe some even unoticable unless pointed out.
But to those who have, like yourself, even the smallest of change can change the feeling of a character drastically.

Just like looking yourself in a mirror daily. You know how you look.
But when you see yourself in a photo you might notice how different it feels for some reason.
And that's because no face is perfectly symetrical so looking at yourself from how others see you and not through a mirror your brain picks up those small differences.
Same principle here.
Ofc, some changes has been more drastic than others.

[Ayase07]

I'm Japanese and I'm using a translation tool to post this, so I apologize for the unnatural language.





▼ Face lines appear blurred.

The first thing I thought was the shade of the contour around the chin.
I thought that the three-dimensional effect of the shadows was not well expressed here, so there was no sense of definition. This may also be true for other species.


▼ Nose shadow is too dark.

This could be thinned a bit to lessen the stage makeup look.


▼ Strong shadow expression of grooves and depressions extending diagonally from the bottom of the eye socket to the cheeks.

It's similar to the nose shadow I mentioned above, but I think the Golgo 13-like lines are overemphasized.


▼ Eyelines are too thick (especially the bottom)

On the right are the eyes of 1 Face for comparison.
Face 5 originally had the expression of the surrounding eyeliner. However, I think the brownish color that was drawn was changed to a blackish color. Colors that blend well with the skin, such as red and orange, look natural.
I think the shadow of the expression of eyelid thickness and the color of the black-based eyeliner have combined to make it look like the enclosing makeup that made the entire eye area black a long time ago.


▼ Eyelid Expression

The double lines that were drawn appear to be gone. There is also not much blurring of the eyehall.
I think this is the cause of the unnatural and nondescript look when the eyes are closed.


▼ Proposals based on the above

It is not a perfect ideal form, but we have provided an additional image for reference.


I would love to have a false eyelight that doesn't disappear even with bangs, a lip gloss that is a shade, a skin expression that doesn't look like freckles, and a sexy mole that doesn't look like a sticker...

[4clubbedace]

I've tried something to illustrate why for some people certain changes may completely alter a character's perceived personality and why people like me are unhappy about it.

I hope with this I can communicate a bit better how some of the changes feel to me (and perhaps to some other people) and why something seemingly small like resculpting a mouth can be "such a big deal" and lead to people saying "this looks like a different person".

I have drawn two pictures of my EW char and my DT char (full disclosure, I traced it and just stylised her features):

The goal was not to 1:1 trace her features and accurately document the differences (I've done that here).
It was to depict how I would interpret, capture and stylise her personality if someone asked me to draw the character in the respective screenshot.

It's about the vibe/feeling/emotion I get when looking at the EW and the DT models.
That's why her features are exaggerated to be more stern/cute.

im actually so curious how the exact same expression (esp the eyebrows) look so different to you, if it wasnt for ew horns being way worse i actually wouldnt be able to tell a difference.

Fascinating

[Loggos]

im actually so curious how the exact same expression (esp the eyebrows) look so different to you, if it wasnt for ew horns being way worse i actually wouldnt be able to tell a difference.

Fascinating

The eye brows are fine actually. I agree that they in particular are the same. So I need to clarify again: I did exaggerate the features based on the "soul" of the sum of the face, if that makes sense. But that exaggeration was not done to mislead and say "those features objectively look like that".
It was to show how, from an artistic perspective, I'd capture her essence. Like when a caricaturist can take a rather neutral feature and warp it in one or the other direction in order to emphasise certain (character) traits.

For me the biggest issue is the mouth and the puffed up cheeks and how they affect the "sum" of the face. The eyes are also slightly softer, esp. because of the thicker eye lashes and the bigger pupils (the old ones are smaller and lead to more of a stare), but not much (I can live with the eyes).

But the mouth has gone from, what to me looks rather skeptical and non-smiling, to a gently smiling puckered doll-ish mouth. The lips used to be rather convex, now they are concave.

I can only really use the make-up example again: Depending on how you put make-up on the same lips you can create a completely different effect. A person/their mouth might look like a completely different feature. (E.g., K-Pop gradient lips vs. overlining matte lips or sth.).

The eyes can't counter the effect of the mouth for me, so now she's even more milque-toast. Probably even eats cookies for breakfast. :/