Character graphical changes are NOT in an acceptable state, please make it optional

[Rudje]

The small changes in faces are not major. If the change drastically changes the face, it's not a small change. Lips being slightly curved different (looking at you Miqos) is on a different level than Au Ra Face 4 looking like a balloon or Veenas having Rava eyes. Again - not that they don't matter, because they do, but people who don't look at your character 24/7 literally don't see them and are likely to get pissy about yet another thread of a character that looks identical to 99.8% of other people. How many threads on a few nose pixels - each face on a different thread btw - that pushed certain, more major discussions back 150+ posts back on page 10? Not an exaggeration. Insanity.

What I was saying is that if you're going to point out the little things, make sure those little things are adequately pointed out or it's just hot air that is effectively useless to everyone.

And being an ass about people struggling to articulate their problems because they lack the training to put it into words isn't helping either, and is making things way worse in the EN forums. People are expressing upset and being attacked because they're having problems articulating precisely what they're noticing and it's far worse for getting feedback than people providing kind of mid feedback themselves are.

E: also, I just don't agree that these are super minor changes. These are major stylistic shifts that seem to only exist in pursuit of poorly-done realism, in a game where realism was never the visual focus in the first place.

[Tsumdere]

And being an ass about people struggling to articulate their problems because they lack the training to put it into words isn't helping either, and is making things way worse in the EN forums. People are expressing upset and being attacked because they're having problems articulating precisely what they're noticing and it's far worse for getting feedback than people providing kind of mid feedback themselves are.

E: also, I just don't agree that these are super minor changes. These are major stylistic shifts that seem to only exist in pursuit of poorly-done realism, in a game where realism was never the visual focus in the first place.

Training? It's not rocket science. Open up MSPaint and draw circles around offending points. It doesn't require words. Posting two pictures side by side with no guide saying "I'm devastated and ruined it's not the same character" is not helpful.

Ironically, Rava don’t have Rava’s eyes anymore too. At least not male Ravas. Both clans pupils got changed to look the same.

lmao I always played Veena so I didn't notice that Rava was different too.

[Rueby]

Training? It's not rocket science. Open up MSPaint and draw circles around offending points. It doesn't require words. Posting two pictures side by side with no guide saying "I'm devastated and ruined it's not the same character" is not helpful.

Yes, some people in this thread have been emotional and perhaps unreasonable but the responses these people get only breed frustration and contempt from both sides. It seems really simple 'just pull the ms paint and point at it' but what if they don't know exactly where to point? Something feels off and they don't know how to express it. I'd like to think these emotional responses stem out of a deep love for their character and I can't help but sympathize with them.

To put it bluntly, not many people have an eye trained for detail to be able to pinpoint exactly what is bothering them. When I first looked at my character I knew something was off immediately but I didn't know exactly what it was until I booted up the Bench and game CC and photoshop and spent way too long trying to get perfect shots. I have a pretty ok-ish background on art, and it's something I'm passionate about, someone else might not be able to pick on what I'm seeing or is struggling to put it in words or even diagrams.

Anyone chiming in going like 'just do it 4head' 'it's that simple' 'it's not rocket science' just causes frustration. While I encourage people to go into MSPaint or whatever free digital program to try and express their issues, I'm also sympathetic that not everyone has the means to. I was exhausted spending all day trying to fight the CC to try and make comparisons.

I mentioned it before, your eye (observation, eye for details) is essentially a skill that levels up combined with some basic knowledge about the human face/body/proportion/lighting/perspective people can pinpoint something that bothers them. Without that basic knowledge, I'd imagine someone might struggle and I can't fault them. Showing compassion to someone who is struggling to express themselves because they lack a skill- even if they're in an emotional state, can go a long way.

I could for example take two pictures but the angle is slightly different, and I start comparing them. The comparison isn't fair because things aren't kept constant. I don't know whether this is a prespective/angle change, or an actual change.

[Rudje]

In general people really underestimate how much training your eye is as much a skill as training your hands. It's like expecting the average person to send even a mediocre bug report; there's a lot of learning involved in knowing what details are relevant and what is a problem because of something else (ie the early comments about the eyes looking wrong were in many ways because of how the highlights were altered, but you wouldn't know that if you only looked at those very early comments because it took someone who knew what to look for to pinpoint what they were picking up).

[Loggos]

In general people really underestimate how much training your eye is as much a skill as training your hands. It's like expecting the average person to send even a mediocre bug report; there's a lot of learning involved in knowing what details are relevant and what is a problem because of something else (ie the early comments about the eyes looking wrong were in many ways because of how the highlights were altered, but you wouldn't know that if you only looked at those very early comments because it took someone who knew what to look for to pinpoint what they were picking up).

Also completely agree with that one. When you learn to draw you spent a considerable amount of time on learning just to see.
Sometimes you don't draw at all but instead spend time on lengthy visual analyses of shapes, anatomy, colour, light, perspective etc.
Motor skills are important but they only translate what you visually perceive in the first place.
There is a really interesting (older) book called "Drawing with the right side of the brain" that explores how the mere act of learning to see on its own completely changes your drawing results. (Can really recommend that book for anyone interested in picking up drawing btw.)

And anecdotally I can also say that even if I haven't drawn for a prolonged period of time I sometimes still make progress just because I practice lots of active observation during those "motoric down times".

There is actually so much practice and skill involved in visual and detail-focused perception.

Sorry, tangent over.

[Loggos]

Yes, some people in this thread have been emotional and perhaps unreasonable but the responses these people get only breed frustration and contempt from both sides. It seems really simple 'just pull the ms paint and point at it' but what if they don't know exactly where to point? Something feels off and they don't know how to express it. I'd like to think these emotional responses stem out of a deep love for their character and I can't help but sympathize with them.

To put it bluntly, not many people have an eye trained for detail to be able to pinpoint exactly what is bothering them. When I first looked at my character I knew something was off immediately but I didn't know exactly what it was until I booted up the Bench and game CC and photoshop and spent way too long trying to get perfect shots. I have a pretty ok-ish background on art, and it's something I'm passionate about, someone else might not be able to pick on what I'm seeing or is struggling to put it in words or even diagrams.

Anyone chiming in going like 'just do it 4head' 'it's that simple' 'it's not rocket science' just causes frustration. While I encourage people to go into MSPaint or whatever free digital program to try and express their issues, I'm also sympathetic that not everyone has the means to. I was exhausted spending all day trying to fight the CC to try and make comparisons.

I mentioned it before, your eye (observation, eye for details) is essentially a skill that levels up combined with some basic knowledge about the human face/body/proportion/lighting/perspective people can pinpoint something that bothers them. Without that basic knowledge, I'd imagine someone might struggle and I can't fault them. Showing compassion to someone who is struggling to express themselves because they lack a skill- even if they're in an emotional state, can go a long way.

I could for example take two pictures but the angle is slightly different, and I start comparing them. The comparison isn't fair because things aren't kept constant. I don't know whether this is a prespective/angle change, or an actual change.

I completely agree with this.

Also, we've seen that just pointing at things in MSPaint still doesn't always get the point across, but precisely drawing in what is wrong is a lot more difficult with a mouse. I spent way too much time on meticulously lining the shapes of my char's features in both screenshots with my graphic tablet to make sure everything is as accurate as possible.
Because if it's too sloppy then you can't prove your point either.
But not everyone has a graphic tablet or an ipad with a pencil etc.

Then if you want to be even more thorough and add descriptive texts and create collages of individual features for better comparison you'll quickly spend 1 hour on that whole thing because all those small tasks add up.

Not everybody has the time for that though.
I think it's completely understandable when people, who just want to voice their concerns, post screenshots with a post/text decriptions of what they dislike.
I think diagrams/visual analyses and stuff are very helpful but not everyone should have to post those to be taken seriously.

[SongOfTheWind]

[I]lmao I always played Veena so I didn't notice that Rava was different too.

To be clear, I am not sure if female Rava eyes changed. I have this reference I grabbed from here Benchmark state


And this is for male Vieras, where Rava’s pupil got enlarged while Veena got it smaller to be unified for both clans. (and I can’t find the post I took this picture from, sorry)

So it looks like both genders now share the same eyes. And who knows how many other races tbh (elezen? hyur?)
I wish it was an asset switch bug or smth between the clans. But given they both got changed - it looks more like a redesign. And of a clan signature feature no less. With how CC is limited it is upsetting to see even more generalisation happening.