Character graphical changes are NOT in an acceptable state, please make it optional

[Shiro-Marusu]

Going to continue from this because I made more comparisons. [...]

Hopefully this doesn't distract from the topic at hand too much, but I would like to expand upon my comparisons some more. However, this time I want to include things that I think are an improvement and why I think some changes were made, and then think about how despite these changes it could still look more like the original.

So, when looking at some emotes it is clear that some structural changes were made for what I can only assume is the (attempted) improvement of animations/rigs. Perhaps this was to make sure the improved graphics would not end up looking odd on a face that was modeled less realistically;



In the picture above you can see that the old model had the lower jaw pulled back a bit too far using certain emotes. The new one looks more realistic in that regard and I think it is an improvement.

Then the eyes;



It is clear that the eyes now have a more realistic 3D shape and I am fairly sure this is so that they would reflect the dynamic lighting more accurately. However, in making these changes I feel like perhaps they have lost some sight of the original impressions. While I do not think that with these (perhaps necessary) changes you can 100% go back to the original, I feel like perhaps you could get a fair amount of its original identity back by adding the sharper edge towards the inner-eye, and making the 'eyeliner' a bit less thick/black and a bit more elongated.

In the old eyes, the opening of the eyelids was also bigger than the opening of the eye-hole (for lack of better words). This allowed the elongated eye-liner to still move along in a more believable fashion with emotes. Perhaps there is a way to do the same with the new one without losing the overall shape that is necessary for the reflections.

The lips also seem a bit more relaxed and realistic, which is good. However, I feel like this can be done without adding the more obvious 'dimples' or making the lower lip fuller, or changing the shape so much. The new model also seems to have a slightly shorter upper lip, which does look more realistic but I would say is not completely necessary same as the newly modeled philtrum that wasn't really there before. (I would be okay with adding one if it were a bit less obvious perhaps.) These changes seem to be more subjective choices than needed for functionality, but perhaps I don't know enough about the process.

Overall I think I can see what they were going for, but feel like perhaps they have leaned more towards trying to achieve realism than preserving the original identity. (aside from some rig issues that seem like they are simply bugs) I hope that with player feedback, we can at least find a happy middle-ground.

[CidHeiral]

Hm, you may be right. I suppose I was just curious how others perceived the differences I pointed out as for me they seem more obvious than others I've seen.

Since you asked, I took a look at your examples. There are obvious differences like the mouth and the eyes, but to me they all fall within an acceptable transition to a new model.

In this image for example, I thought "he looks pretty cool in the update."



It's not exactly your old character down to the last pixel, but neither was mine. They're both still recognizable as themselves and look like a spruced up HD version, in my opinion. If your character were my character I would be very pleased, but of course you're free to love it or hate it, it's your dude.

[SugaryMiraa]

I am kind of alright with the new face of my character, but extremely unhappy with how the hair has turned out. It looks very flat, colourless and lacks any kind of shine that the old one had, not to mention the hideous thready looking texture. It almost looks like it's bugged at this point in the benchmark as it fails to interact properly with lighting. We still got over two months to wait and I really hope this is all just a heavy WIP and things can still change. I literally made an account just to post this and I'm glad to see that people are voicing their concerns here.

[magitekwitch]

First time posting on the forum, not much that haven't been said yet but I just want to share my experience. I posted my issues on the JP forum too.

Imagine my jumpscare when I opened the character creator and my grandpa got yassified and deaged!!!!!!


Thankfully it seems it's just a weird light effect, he looks a lot better under natural light, but the drastic difference makes me worry about how he will actually look ingame in different environments...


Definitely a lot of things need to be fixed (bad quality body scales, waxy skin, lifeless eyes, everything that has been mentioned by other users), and I'm sure that they will in time, but these issues shouldn't have happened in the first place. A change this big in the core models isn't something that can be adjusted with a Fantasia.

What I'm now worried about too, it's how some NPCs will look with this update. I quickly recreated Fourchenault to compare, and he looks so smooth and soft!!??

I can't imagine a smoothed Estinien or Nero lol
I don't know. I want to be optimistic, and I know I'll get used to it as I play, but I can't help but feel disappointed and very worried.

[Shiro-Marusu]

Since you asked, I took a look at your examples. There are obvious differences like the mouth and the eyes, but to me they all fall within an acceptable transition to a new model.

In this image for example, I thought "he looks pretty cool in the update."



It's not exactly your old character down to the last pixel, but neither was mine. They're both still recognizable as themselves and look like a spruced up HD version, in my opinion. If your character were my character I would be very pleased, but of course you're free to love it or hate it, it's your dude.

I appreciate the feedback, and I see what you mean. There are definitely angles I do like, and as stated in one of my posts above, there's obvious improvements as well. There's probably also a few things I could get used to if given enough time. I hope in the end we can all find a middle ground that works and makes us feel happy with our characters.

[Rueby]

I can't imagine a smoothed Estinien or Nero lol
I don't know. I want to be optimistic, and I know I'll get used to it as I play, but I can't help but feel disappointed and very worried.

You know who I'm dreading this graphical update hitting? Zenos. He has that interesting adorable nose that I love so dearly. Please don't give my boy a nose job I love his stupid big nose and his blank lifeless deep blue eyes. It's funny how I'm worried more about him than my character ahahaha...Damn I wonder what they'd do to Emet Selch...or Varis. I can't imagine these people going soft and 'I've been moisturizing, my friend' or 'I've been moisturizing, hero'.

I'm laughing about it lmao

[Iscah]

What I'm now worried about too, it's how some NPCs will look with this update.

I've wondered this too, because it's going to have a pretty serious impact on some NPCs if implemented like this.

With all the discussion over changes to female Au Ra, Sadu is particularly in the firing line, and probably Cirina as well.

I've only looked closely at my own characters so far, but another NPC that keeps floating to mind (because he uses the same face as my Miqo'te) is Zhai'a Nelhah from the BLM quests. His serious expression is a big part of setting that character up, but the changes have given that face more of a smile, and I think it's going to be pretty bad for him.

[MoonNoire]

So many people telling me my characters, whom now seem like skinwalkers just barely resembling the originals, are "fine and actually better looking".

It doesn't matter that the eyes are further apart, or that the face is rounder and fatter. Doesn't matter that the iris is entirely different or that their new mouth shapes now change their facial expression completely. So what if the lifeless eyes make it look like my characters have gone through 15 years of trauma? The hair textures are nicer. (The ones that aren't broken.) So just wait for your GENEROUSLY provided freebie fantasia - the solution to the problem caused by the solution to a problem nobody asked Square-Enix to fix.

I'll just be here enjoying my new dolphin teeth.

[AirisRay]

Excuse me? Are you trying to gaslight me? No, they are clearly not the same. Not even close. The look LOWER RES than the current lips. The shape of the top lip is much more pointy in the benchmark. The shape of the bottom of the top lip is completely flattened. The bottom lip is smaller and no longer protrudes over the shadow the lip casts, as seen in the 3rd row pic.

I also see that your character's lips have a completely different shape compared to the original, as well as a different texture. This is absolutely obvious.

Some people are on the forum all day long just to write "this is the same picture" to all comparison images.

Someone bring pictures and they say: "this is the same", "the light in CC is bad", "change the gamma", "this character looks beautiful to me", "it only seems to you", "it’s a matter of your perception", "take your pills, go outside", "too dramatic".
I don’t know what all this has to do with the changed face model, and I guess they themselves don’t know. There was already a post from 3D artist who showed how the very model of the face of one of the characters had changed, but this is also probably bad light for them ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Your complaints are absolutely valid. Your feelings are absolutely valid. They promised to do one thing, but we got another. But in such situations it's very important to remember: we all came here in an attempt to draw the attention of SE to this problem. We didn't come here to try to convince people on the forum that our characters have really changed. Don't try to convince them of something, it's absolutely pointless. And they won't listen to you anyway.

I can advise you to leave your message on the Japanese forum, where the atmosphere is completely different. I also advise you to leave this message in "bug reports". My recent message about my character's defect was moved to "accepted bugs" and this greatly encourages me.

oke :3

Well, I tried to repeat the scene as closely as possible and now I'm really disappointed! The graphical upgrade looks like PS3 version and i am say this, this the worst upgrade for midlander 1 face, this is really freak!!! *this only my opinion, and yes i am a very emotional person, sorry for that* All in new upgrade on this looks terrible!

Please tell me, where is my cute character and what kind of monster did they make of him? Only the skin looks improved and then it looks old, lol! Yes, I declare responsibly, for me this is a downgrade, I'm talking about my character!

I also think your character looks different. Of course, in the new version she is not a "freak", but I understand why you say that and I understand your feelings. She's definitely not a freak, but she definitely looks not like before.
Due to the limit on the number of posts, I couldn't write this yesterday.

[Roda]

I am kind of alright with the new face of my character, but extremely unhappy with how the hair has turned out. It looks very flat, colourless and lacks any kind of shine that the old one had, not to mention the hideous thready looking texture. It almost looks like it's bugged at this point in the benchmark as it fails to interact properly with lighting. We still got over two months to wait and I really hope this is all just a heavy WIP and things can still change. I literally made an account just to post this and I'm glad to see that people are voicing their concerns here.

i just gotta say i love what you did with the tattoo and the facepaint!