Character graphical changes are NOT in an acceptable state, please make it optional

[Evergrey]

So many people love m!viera face 3's mouth for example. So is it a good decision to resculpt it? Or would it be better to keep something so beloved and add more options (since the new mouth has now already been created anyway).

My guess is that changes to mouths must've had to be done to compensate for higher quality animations where the old ones just didn't met the new requirements to animate them.
That's the only logical reason I can think of.

[Loggos]

Because of this I'm probably more discerning over what I consider severe enough and the Aura fem faces to me have never expressed that strongly enough.

I actually completely agree. This is why I'm clinging so hard to the tiny bit of edge that's offered in face 4, haha. Because now even this pathetic hint of severity is gone.

If it had been me doing the upscaling, I would have leant more into the severe look as per Loggo's illustration because I look for and enjoy those aspects, along with making the eyebrows slightly more angular and reducing pupil size would be a good starting point.

Please infiltrate SE and become their new character artist. I would love more harsh looks for fem au ras. ;0;

[twobear]

sorry to interfere, but if perception is such a subjective thing and there is a very fine line between like and not, then maybe developers shouldn't change what people like, but add new faces, hairstyles, fangs and a lot of other cool things as a new feature, I mean face 7, lips 8, and not to change what people have loved for years, and then try to please everyone * which of course will not work*. And for existing models, just add HD textures. Of course, this is only if it is possible * because they could have rewritten the animation engine itself and therefore redesigned the textures properly, which I have doubts about, because as far as I know the xbox s version and the ps4 version will be with old graphics. Just add new character types that the developers want to make for us, but also let us use the old ones that still look amazing in my opinion!

I don't think simply upscaling the textures would work or look as good. Take my guy (linked here: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post6443558). The reason his face looks so much better is because of the new shadows and the fact that they are not so dark. It gives a far better looking perception of shadows on the face than before. You can't get that just by upscaling the textures because the way the character is lit would still look the same as before, with harsh, black shadows all over the face.

[Fawkes]

This raises an interesting thought. If you and someone else have the same character look, and you perceive it negatively while they perceive it positively, who is correct? Who do the developers listen to?

I'm not saying you're wrong or even referring to you specifically, I'm just thinking about being in the dev's shoes and it seems like quite a pickle. How do you design around individual perception, which is different for every one of the millions of people playing the game?

I certainly don't envy being in their position right now. lol

That was what I thought when I heard someone say that Korean players liked the Au Ra pouty lips.

I still think it's possible that some or most of the major differences were unintentional mistakes or some sort of outsourced mix-up. In which case they'd most likely revert to the original style unless there was overwhelming support for the new one.

Though I guess even if they were on purpose I would think they'd revert them unless it was clear nearly everyone wanted them. If it were a 50/50 split then sticking with the status quo is the safer bet, they can always just weave in some false hope about "maybe we'll expand character creation some day and add it back" for the people who want the new thing.

[AirisRay]

This raises an interesting thought. If you and someone else have the same character look, and you perceive it negatively while they perceive it positively, who is correct? Who do the developers listen to?

I'm not saying you're wrong or even referring to you specifically, I'm just thinking about being in the dev's shoes and it seems like quite a pickle. How do you design around individual perception, which is different for every one of the millions of people playing the game?

I certainly don't envy being in their position right now. lol

This is a very simple question and I have a very simple answer to it.

They just had to do what they promised and what they did with some of the characters: delicate precision in improving them. Some characters were improved without changing their facial features (or changing them so exquisitely that there is almost no difference). And some have lost their usual appearance due to changes. And of course, in my opinion, the priority here is for the people who have played these characters for years.

For those who wanted some changes, the developers could later add additional facial features to the CC.
By the way, I wouldn’t mind diversity either. But diversity should be of our personal choice. This is where the root of the problem lies.

And in that case everyone would be happy. And there wouldn’t be so many topics and sad people on this forum now. Everyone would continue to wait impatiently for 7.0. And we would discuss beautiful new graphics.

[HermitUK]

My guess is that changes to mouths must've had to be done to compensate for higher quality animations where the old ones just didn't met the new requirements to animate them.
That's the only logical reason I can think of.

I also suspect it's about streamlining for cutscene creation purposes. A lot of cutscenes at present just use prebaked character emotes, but the stuff in the Benchmark looks a bit more bespoke. I suspect the reason everyone's mouth is suddenly a completely straight line is so that they can map the same animation onto every face without having to do any additional tweaking. Which is probably going to lead to some uncanny looking animations at times depending on your race / face.

[Evergrey]

I also suspect it's about streamlining for cutscene creation purposes. A lot of cutscenes at present just use prebaked character emotes, but the stuff in the Benchmark looks a bit more bespoke. I suspect the reason everyone's mouth is suddenly a completely straight line is so that they can map the same animation onto every face without having to do any additional tweaking. Which is probably going to lead to some uncanny looking animations at times depending on your race / face.

Yeah. Before the benchmark, as far as I can remember anyways, the player model dont do anything outside of basic ingame emotes/animations.
Where in the BM, like you mentioned, the animations were more bespoken.
And for that new riggings would be needed unless the old facial textures and bones would stretch and perhaps even clip into itself.
So ye, that's my only logical guess as to why some changes had to be done, some more drastic than others.

[CidHeiral]

That is a very good point and I'd say (in an ideal world where it would be possible): don't put away with old options but keep the new ones too. Like this players who prefer their old look are happy and people who prefer the upgrade are happy.

I see what you mean. I do think the "new" versions were their genuine attempt at replicating the old versions and they just subjectively missed the mark in some cases.

That raises another thought. I see a lot of people suggesting they add everything as a different option. What if they make the current mouth an option, do another attempt at the mouth and you love it, but someone else hates it and hates the previous one as well. Do they make a third mouth? At what point do they draw the line and tell people they have to deal with it, and if there is a point where that is acceptable, why isn't it acceptable at the first mouth, assuming they tried their best to get it as close as they could?

Again I'm not pointing fingers at anyone, these are all just interesting perspectives to think about.

I still think it's possible that some or most of the major differences were unintentional mistakes or some sort of outsourced mix-up. In which case they'd most likely revert to the original style unless there was overwhelming support for the new one.

That is my assumption as well. A lot of the changes people have pointed out are pretty minor physically (even if they're a big deal to that person) so it's within the realm of possibility that someone along the development chain just made a mistake or a bad judgement call. I think they're all doing their best to get them as close as possible to the originals.

They just had to do what they promised and what they did with some of the characters: delicate precision in improving them. Some characters were improved without changing their facial features (or changing them so exquisitely that there is almost no difference). And some have lost their usual appearance due to changes. And of course, in my opinion, the priority here is for the people who have played these characters for years.

My original post may have been unclear.

Say there is someone else out there who happened to make a character identical to yours. The benchmark comes out and you hate it. This other person loves it and thinks their character looks perfect, they don't see any differences other than it being in HD. Who is correct?

As another example, I think Face 1 Highlander turned out fantastic. I've seen other posts that say it looks like garbage and nothing like their character. Who is correct?

Now obviously the answer is both and neither, everyone is entitled to their opinion on their own character. The thought experiment was more about how the developers respond to conflicting feedback about the same thing.

Side note, I think it's pretty silly to say someone's opinion on aesthetics is worth more just because they've played the game longer.

[Doopliss]

My original post may have been unclear.

Say there is someone else out there who happened to make a character identical to yours. The benchmark comes out and you hate it. This other person loves it and thinks their character looks perfect, they don't see any differences other than it being in HD. Who is correct?

As another example, I think Face 1 Highlander turned out fantastic. I've seen other posts that say it looks like garbage and nothing like their character. Who is correct?

Now obviously the answer is both and neither, everyone is entitled to their opinion on their own character. The thought experiment was more about how the developers respond to conflicting feedback about the same thing.

Side note, I think it's pretty silly to say someone's opinion on aesthetics is worth more just because they've played the game longer.

I personally do think these questions are portrayed a little black and white, when the situation is far more grey...

For example, since so many people think others are being dramatic and see very little changes, and simply enjoy the upgrade--do you really think they would feel any different about it if the upgrade was done more precisely to have the facial features and makeup look like the current models'?

I understand a lot of arguments are started through aggressive language here, and that doesn't help anyone think more objectively, but, they did set up expectations to a userbase in which many paying customers were expecting something more carefully handled.

[Mylandra]

I would like to share this with you.

For context, I've been playing this game since January 2014 and I have 18k hours of playtime so yeah I've been staring at my character the whole time and I was really affected when I saw it in the benchmark. To me, she looked too different and I was really disappointed.

However, I've somehow managed to make a character I like and I hope my advice can help some of you.


The 1st piece of advice I can give you is to check the system configuration and your current character lighting setting.

For comparison, it seems that the character lighting is at 0 in EW benchmark and at 100 (or maybe 50, I don't know) in DT benchmark




This is how my character looks in game, with 0,50 and 100 character lighting and 2 different light source.
as you can see, lighting has a strong impact on your look.





The 2nd tip is to use your current game settings in benchmark. This can help, especially when your chin and neck seem to blend together at max settings. I tried it and the jawline was more visible.

My final tip is to import your character's current hairstyle if it's not available in the benchmark, and try to change small details like eye or skin color.
In my case, when I saw my character with her usual hairstyle during the cutscenes I was like "ok I recognize my wol but the skin is too dark and the eye color doesn't look natural"



I used a free fantasia I had on an alt that has access to the aesthetician, switched to midlander and changed the eye and skin color, then I bought the hairstyle at the MB (I lost 2 million gils but it was worth it tbh)

here is how it turned out :





it's not really "same and better" but rather "very similar and pretty cool".
I hope it's helpful for anyone ♥

And please let's be nice to each other
(+ I'm sorry english is not my native language so there may be some mistakes)

Edit : I would like to clarify, I'm not saying lighting, gamma or settings will fix all the issues, it can work for some and not for others and I'm sorry about that.
I'm aware that there are bugs and bad shape changes etc.
The aim of this post is to help and not to invalidate anyone's feelings.