Character graphical changes are NOT in an acceptable state, please make it optional

[Mouthbone]

I've tried something to illustrate why for some people certain changes may completely alter a character's perceived personality and why people like me are unhappy about it.

I can see the differences in the eyebrows and the eyelashes that make the DT expression more kind, but I would disagree that the difference is as severe as it is in your drawings
To me, the current expression reads as more neutral rather than stern
I feel like its a pretty faithful adaptation

[Loggos]

I can see the differences in the eyebrows and the eyelashes that make the DT expression more kind, but I would disagree that the difference is as severe as it is in your drawings
To me, the current expression reads as more neutral rather than stern
I feel like its a pretty faithful adaptation

But that's the point. I don't try to argue anything objective here. If you want a more objective comparison of the features I've done that here.

The point is to illustrate how I perceive my character and how I perceive those changes and why for some people changing the face does result in that impression of "wow, that's someone else". I accept that other people don't think the changes are big but the whole purpose of those images was to showcase how different people perceive the changes differently.

As I said in my op, I actively exaggerated the features.
The idea was, if someone asked me to draw stylised versions of the screenshots (e.g., as a character commission) how would I interpret them? And that is how I would do it. Because this is how I perceive their personality.
The screenshots themselves are more subtle. The job of stylisation is exaggeration (or a form of caricature if you will) to bring out the essence of their personality I perceive.

I'm sorry I have used the word perceive a gazillion times in this post but that is really what it boils down to.
Small objective changes are indisputably there (the mouth is very different for example).
For you and other people those small (objectively existing) changes don't alter how they perceive the character. That is fine and fair.
But please understand that for other people this effect is there. Neither of us is wrong when it comes to subjective perception.

[Mouthbone]

But that's the point. I don't try to argue anything objective here. If you want a more objective comparison of the features I've done that here.

The point is to illustrate how I perceive my character and how I perceive those changes and why for some people changing the face does result in that impression of "wow, that's someone else". I accept that other people don't think the changes are big but the whole purpose of those images was to showcase how different people perceive the changes differently.

That's an excellent post, I hope the devs see your feedback.
Posts like yours is what I would advocate for - they clearly highlight the changes and explain their reasoning.
It's leagues better than showing two very similar pictures, going "Dude, trust me" and then getting upset when people don't see the difference.

[CidHeiral]

I'm sorry I have used the word perceive a gazillion times in this post but that is really what it boils down to.
Small objective changes are indisputably there (the mouth is very different for example).
For you and other people those small (objectively existing) changes don't alter how they perceive the character. That is fine and fair.
But please understand that for other people this effect is there. Neither of us is wrong when it comes to subjective perception.

This raises an interesting thought. If you and someone else have the same character look, and you perceive it negatively while they perceive it positively, who is correct? Who do the developers listen to?

I'm not saying you're wrong or even referring to you specifically, I'm just thinking about being in the dev's shoes and it seems like quite a pickle. How do you design around individual perception, which is different for every one of the millions of people playing the game?

I certainly don't envy being in their position right now. lol

[Mouthbone]

This raises an interesting thought. If you and someone else have the same character look, and you perceive it negatively while they perceive it positively, who is correct? Who do the developers listen to?

I'm not saying you're wrong or even referring to you specifically, I'm just thinking about being in the dev's shoes and it seems like quite a pickle. How do you design around individual perception, which is different for every one of the millions of people playing the game?

I certainly don't envy being in their position.

I've been thinking about this ever since I've noticed the outpouring of feedback.
Poor Intern-kun that has to comb the forums and choose what to pass onto the devs must be going bald by this point.

[SongOfTheWind]

This raises an interesting thought. If you and someone else have the same character look, and you perceive it negatively while they perceive it positively, who is correct? Who do the developers listen to?

I'm not saying you're wrong or even referring to you specifically, I'm just thinking about being in the dev's shoes and it seems like quite a pickle. How do you design around individual perception, which is different for every one of the millions of people playing the game?

I certainly don't envy being in their position right now. lol

No one would be right or wrong there, but it is exactly why it was important to carefully preserve the existing feature sets. And present all alterations as optional features, not changing the bases. Otherwise they are robbing people of characters they might have known for years in exchange for something new, people just found out they actually like more.
There should not have been such a choice to begin with. It’s rather sad.

[Loggos]

This raises an interesting thought. If you and someone else have the same character look, and you perceive it negatively while they perceive it positively, who is correct? Who do the developers listen to?

I'm not saying you're wrong or even referring to you specifically, I'm just thinking about being in the dev's shoes and it seems like quite a pickle. How do you design around individual perception, which is different for every one of the millions of people playing the game?

I certainly don't envy being in their position right now. lol

That is a very good point and I'd say (in an ideal world where it would be possible): don't put away with old options but keep the new ones too. Like this players who prefer their old look are happy and people who prefer the upgrade are happy.

From a realistic business point though I do think it's a risky move to actively resculpt certain features that have always been there and that, in a character driven game, players have grown attached to. I can totally live with the lighting changes and how it would affect my char. But I see no reason to go out of their way and completely alter established features. So many people love m!viera face 3's mouth for example. So is it a good decision to resculpt it? Or would it be better to keep something so beloved and add more options (since the new mouth has now already been created anyway).

No one would be right or wrong there, but it is exactly why it was important to carefully preserve the existing feature sets. And present all alterations as optional features, not changing the bases. Otherwise they are robbing people of characters they might have known for years in exchange for something new people just found out they actually like more.
There should not have been such a choice to begin with. It’s rather sad.

You said it better but by that point I had already posted haha. I completely agree!

[Evergrey]

So many people love m!viera face 3's mouth for example. So is it a good decision to resculpt it? Or would it be better to keep something so beloved and add more options (since the new mouth has now already been created anyway).

My guess is that changes to mouths must've had to be done to compensate for higher quality animations where the old ones just didn't met the new requirements to animate them.
That's the only logical reason I can think of.

[HermitUK]

My guess is that changes to mouths must've had to be done to compensate for higher quality animations where the old ones just didn't met the new requirements to animate them.
That's the only logical reason I can think of.

I also suspect it's about streamlining for cutscene creation purposes. A lot of cutscenes at present just use prebaked character emotes, but the stuff in the Benchmark looks a bit more bespoke. I suspect the reason everyone's mouth is suddenly a completely straight line is so that they can map the same animation onto every face without having to do any additional tweaking. Which is probably going to lead to some uncanny looking animations at times depending on your race / face.

[Evergrey]

I also suspect it's about streamlining for cutscene creation purposes. A lot of cutscenes at present just use prebaked character emotes, but the stuff in the Benchmark looks a bit more bespoke. I suspect the reason everyone's mouth is suddenly a completely straight line is so that they can map the same animation onto every face without having to do any additional tweaking. Which is probably going to lead to some uncanny looking animations at times depending on your race / face.

Yeah. Before the benchmark, as far as I can remember anyways, the player model dont do anything outside of basic ingame emotes/animations.
Where in the BM, like you mentioned, the animations were more bespoken.
And for that new riggings would be needed unless the old facial textures and bones would stretch and perhaps even clip into itself.
So ye, that's my only logical guess as to why some changes had to be done, some more drastic than others.