Character graphical changes are NOT in an acceptable state, please make it optional

[AirisRay]

But this is very much the point: you never will make everyone happy because everyone has a very different idea of what they want. Just the texture of the skin for example. Some like the new skin textures. Some say it's too plastic-like, fake looking, doll-like. Alternatively, some are saying the complete opposite, arguing that it's too textured for what they want. Whatever change they make, someone is going to be unhappy.

I would agree that, ideally, a preview of these changes should have been released much earlier than this, giving more time for adjustments as necessary. But perhaps there were behind-scene reasons that this wasn't the case. I very much doubt it was done out of malice or disregard for our characters and to suggest that this is actually the case is both irrational and disrespectful.

I see that the lower part of my character's face is done with great carelessness. I totally understand your arguments, but please also understand mine. I'll have to play this character, I'll have to look at her poorly made model. I will have to accept this and go through deep negative emotions. I try not to be overly dramatic, of course. But for me this is an important question. Yes, you can't make everyone happy. But they made me unhappy. I usually feel no gratitude towards those who make me unhappy, whether intentionally or negligently.
All I want now is for it to be fixed. If this gets fixed, I will certainly admit that I jumped to conclusions.

I'm an artist too and I do think these changes make the characters look different so I don't know how helpful these appeals to our perceived creative authority are.

A person that has spent lots of time with their own char can still understand their visual make up better due to extensive familiarity despite not necessarily being able to draw/paint/sculpt (and I don't even know if Airis isn't an artist themselves).

As a matter of fact, changing features like a mouth's shape can already lead to a very different appearance and characterisation. That's why you can change a person's holistically perceived appeal and appearance just by doing their lips differently with makeup (overlining them vs gradient for example). They might legit feel like different features as a result.

The change of my own char's lip shape alone has completely altered her whole vibe for me. She now looks like a doll even though the eyes and nose are relatively similar/the same. A small feature change can recontextualise the whole face and change our perception of the other features (or the "sum" of a face they create).

Thank you very much for your support! I'm not an artist, I'm a photographer in real life and a gpose enthusiast in the game.
I have also been interested in post-processing photographs for a long time and recently began to get involved in 3D modeling.
And I agree with every word you say.

[AirisRay]

Others have pointed out the difference so I'm just gonna say, everytime I see a Miqo'te comparison I shake my head. 'Cause literally months ago they were showing us one of these:
An exaggeration? Perhaps... but point still stands, where did all the quality gone to...

In the last few days I have also been comparing a lot of what we got with these images they showed us before.

If I got such an identical version of my character as in their examples, I would turn a blind eye to the problems with the plastic skin, to the lighting problems (especially since I still hope that the lighting in 7.0 will be different from what we saw in the benchmark) and so on.

This is exactly what I expected to see. And that's why I trusted them so much in this matter. When I saw my character in the benchmark, I even froze in horror for a second. I definitely didn't expect to see this.

[Scintilla]

I see that the lower part of my character's face is done with great carelessness.

Correct me if I'm wrong but, judging by your previous posts, your main complaint has been the more prominent dimples at the mouth.

Thank you to Rein for the image:

Others have pointed out the difference so I'm just gonna say, everytime I see a Miqo'te comparison I shake my head. 'Cause literally months ago they were showing us one of these:


An exaggeration? Perhaps... but point still stands, where did all the quality gone to...

These same dimples are more prominent in the example image too. Yet this example image was (and still is, judging by Rein's post) celebrated as 'quality'. Similarly, the lower section of the face on the example image seems a very little wider - just as it does in yours. Though this is purely to my own viewpoint and, again, could be lighting or physical feature adjustment or a combination of both.

The reason something that was approved earlier and celebrated widely by players as being a positive change has now been heavily criticized? Because it has been applied to our own familiar characters. These changes on that less familiar face were easier to view as a whole. On our own characters, these same small changes now more easily picked up as being 'different' and are becoming a huge fixation for many players.

[Doopliss]

If they do decide to do something I at least hope they don't withold the update from everyone. Seeing how my character looked with the changes is the first thing that's actually gotten me excited for Dawntrail.

I suspect that this feeling is the main reason there are many people butting heads on this matter. Again, as someone who admittedly doesn't want these character changes at all, I fully believe, realistically, they're going to push out this update on time in one way or another. I don't believe a rollback is happening.

Instead I'd just like to reiterate on a point I attempted to make earlier: I just ask that you try to look at things with empathy. From your icon, I think your Seawolf is very handsome, and I don't doubt the update makes him look even cooler.

However, I just ask that you consider there are some people who had that same level of excitement as you do now suddenly stripped away in place of fear, because their characters weren't as lucky. They're small things, but would it not make the anticipation even a little worse for you if his smile caused his brow bone to clip into his eyes? Or if his hair suddenly had more gaps in it? Or if it now felt like he was forced to wear deep lipstick and eyeliner no matter what you do?

I apologize if these come off as attacks, I only mean to ask them as small, random references for consideration. When I say "far more people likely enjoy how their characters look now, than those who like the changes" I mean that the former sentiment includes even those who do like the changes, if that makes sense.

The changes everyone's asking for, would, ideally, keep characters you believe look beautiful in the current update looking beautiful after any changes. Especially if you think there aren't many differences. We just want all cases to be able to keep the facial features and impressions they have now, so that even those you feel are silly can go into a new adventure with excitement alongside you, rather than against.

Currently, I'm very much not eager to play my characters in a state I feel downgraded them, which is how I assume you'll feel if they need to take things back a notch temporarily. But, I mean...I'm willing to deal with it if we're communicated with for once. If they're listening, and caring, and if it's going to take longer than 2 months, I want to know, and I want updates. I think we all do.

Nobody wants to wait through silence during several month patch cycles just hoping and guessing.

[Thrawn21]

The thing is, yes the lighting is terrible, esp. in the first pic. But even in the creepy flashlight-to-the-face-and-telling-you-a-horror-story lighting context I can still recognise/perceive the coherence of her features and her "facial identity" if you will.

The shadows do resculpt certain parts but through that their characteristic look still shines through so to speak.
I may think "wtf is wrong with you girl - but you're still my girl" (not my char obviously, but I think you get what I mean).

For example, as weird as the eyes look, I can still perceive that the eye shape is consistent throughout all pictures. It's the same, it's just contextualised differently.
Never did I have the feeling the lighting takes what I perceive as my character's face's personality away. It may just be unflattering.

This is why I think the "it's just the lighting, move your char out of the shadows" mindset is not helpful for me.
Besides the by now well-documented point that actual features have been altered and it's not just the lighting, if lighting were to change my core perception of their identity and they'd only feel like themslves in the right light this would still lead to a suboptimal experience.
We can't control the light in cutscenes or in environments, e.g., when we do dungeons or do quests in shady forest areas vs. well-lit plains.
So due to external forces there'd be considerable portions of the game where we would not perceive the visual core identity we have designed for our characters.

Maybe I have a strange perception in that regard but for me "unflattering" is not the same as "feels like a different person". I can live with the first one. It's how I have experienced a lot of ARR to EW and often I was like "meh this looks really weird lol" but it never felt OOC, broke my immersion or profoundly upset me.

But as soon as I saw my char in the (better lit) benchmark video I had this feeling of "no, sorry, this isn't really you :/ " and was, as a consequence, less excited and immersed in it.

This is a good point. Even if my current character looks bad due to poor lighting or weird angles, he still looks like himself (there's visual consistency). The new version is far less consistent in my experience. He'll look totally different depending on the environment, which I find odd. Not specifically in a "good vs bad" way, but rather in a way that makes him look altogether different. It's something I've noticed more and more as I mess around in the character creator with both my current and DT versions.

[potatsdevourer]

Correct me if I'm wrong but, judging by your previous posts, your main complaint has been the more prominent dimples at the mouth.

Thank you to Rein for the image:



These same dimples are more prominent in the example image too. Yet this example image was (and still is, judging by Rein's post) celebrated as 'quality'. Similarly, the lower section of the face on the example image seems a very little wider - just as it does in yours. Though this is purely to my own viewpoint and, again, could be lighting or physical feature adjustment or a combination of both.

The reason something that was approved earlier and celebrated widely by players as being a positive change has now been heavily criticized? Because it has been applied to our own familiar characters. These changes on that less familiar face were easier to view as a whole. On our own characters, these same small changes now more easily picked up as being 'different' and are becoming a huge fixation for many players.

Honestly I think you were on something with this. I was stoked when they released the possible look on each race, thinking my character would be looking more beautiful.
Benchmark released and of course I was mad since there are so many things I perceived as wrong. Then I tried to make point through other NPC (this time Hildibrand was put in as part of April's fool, I am male Highlander face #2 user--same as Hildy--so I think it is good idea to see how this face behaves in new environment).

Which works to my sanity, because after I compared between two Hildies, honestly I just see the new Hildy as the improved detailed version and still able to see him as is.
Of course I can point many things that I deemed to be different and I don't like, but the distance between this NPC and my feeling is what makes me finally click.

At the end of the day I am more on accepting the end result if they end up not doing anything, but still it would be nice if they can give more fine tweakings on the demanded changes.

Edit: adding Hildy picture for reference.

[Doopliss]

The reason something that was approved earlier and celebrated widely by players as being a positive change has now been heavily criticized? Because it has been applied to our own familiar characters. These changes on that less familiar face were easier to view as a whole. On our own characters, these same small changes now more easily picked up as being 'different' and are becoming a huge fixation for many players.

This is also something I can kind of understand your frustration with. I think what's more so happening, however, is that people are getting tricked by these still example images more than anything. They're deliberately taken to look as similar as possible, and in custom lighting to showcase changes all around. The Miqo'te face is actually the same as we have now--all the faces are actually the exact same--as when they first announced they were changing the way heads work. The only time they were different is in the very first preview from the NA Fanfest, when they were using the old head models.

All in all, this is a part of my concern, actually, because it does give the implication they have not been touched at all since London Fanfest, aside from editing the limbal rings to glow a little again. You can notice that even the Auri woman's pupils are still gigantic there, and Male Midlander Face 1 has the same, strange nose change as in the benchmark, and the same darkened lash line, for some examples.

When we finally get to see our characters head-on like this, however, we can more easily pick up the differences, and see things outside of their most ideal environments. As a petty defense for myself, however, I, for one, have been whining about the pupil size increase since London.

EDIT: I also wanted to mention again, they only ever showed mostly the same select few faces during both Fanfests that included the new head changes, which made things even more limited and disingenuous for players. Most of these were Face 1s, though they showed a few other Midlander faces here and there.

[AirisRay]

I apologize for the large number of posts in a row, but all the messages to which I want to respond do not fit into one answer

Sorry, to momentarily "take advantage" of that careless feeling, I want to actually use that Miqo'te image I posted earlier for its intended use.
It's slight and maybe difficult to figure out on faces that don't have markings, but I've also noticed that Facial Features (both from the selectable tab and what's baked in) seem to be placed a little haphazardly on the new models.

It's not bad in my Seeker's case, but I even feel like this messes with impression a little bit. The large one is less rough-looking, while the chin one is outright larger, although I don't personally dislike the latter.

They also look...faker to me? It felt like scars, gems, etc, are a little rushed-feeling with their new textures and placements. I remember seeing a Highlander man with a bunch natural-looking scars on his face in live, who then suddenly had his scars nearly clipping into one another in the benchmark.

And, obviously, not only are eyebrows mysteriously changing thickness and color for many folk, but many of them are straight up placed higher or lower than their original iterations. The change is most egregious with anyone using the eyebrow Facepaint option. And now hairs that didn't have gaps, do... It really does all feel careless...

While feeling this way, I also double-checked my Elezen's face option. And while this is a particular change I don't care about, even her earclasps are placed differently. On the plus side, the mole's new placement appears better, at least, since it looks like it works in consideration of Face 4's tattoo now. I hope to see all changes feel like they were changed with consideration like that, instead.

I noticed that some of the characters were made with the greatest care in all details. I know that many people complain about Viera, which have changed a lot. My dear friend is just as upset as I'm right now, she plays Viera. And I can say for sure that her character has become unrecognizable. I became curious and loaded my Viera into the benchmark. And imagine my amazement when I saw her absolute copy, only improved. I felt very sad that this did not happen to my beloved miqo. I looked at my husband’s Hyur the same way and he looks not good at all. Both in general facial features and in details, which are very sloppy. But his Elezen looks great.

That's why I say they did some of the work sloppily. Because they still managed to achieve almost perfect similarity in some cases. And I can’t say that any race was particularly successful. There are positive and negative examples among each race.

Some people got lucky and got beautifully similar characters. Some people don't.
We can only hope that they will fix everyone before the release of 7.0. And hope that they will even notice everything we write here.

[AirisRay]

Correct me if I'm wrong but, judging by your previous posts, your main complaint has been the more prominent dimples at the mouth.

Thank you to Rein for the image:



These same dimples are more prominent in the example image too. Yet this example image was (and still is, judging by Rein's post) celebrated as 'quality'. Similarly, the lower section of the face on the example image seems a very little wider - just as it does in yours. Though this is purely to my own viewpoint and, again, could be lighting or physical feature adjustment or a combination of both.

The reason something that was approved earlier and celebrated widely by players as being a positive change has now been heavily criticized? Because it has been applied to our own familiar characters. These changes on that less familiar face were easier to view as a whole. On our own characters, these same small changes now more easily picked up as being 'different' and are becoming a huge fixation for many players.

It doesn't look like a dimple. It looks like a depression running through the entire lips and adjacent cheek area. This is exactly what I talk about in all my previous posts. I also wrote a big post with a lot of examples in the bugs section.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-part-of-face.

In this particular example, I don't see flat, untextured lips pressed inward. This cannot be compared to what my character is now. Also, here the shape of the lips is repeated with perfect accuracy. My character's lips have completely lost their original shape and outline.

Also, in the example they presented, soft diffused artificial light falls on the character. In the benchmark we have the same sharp shadows as in the current game. Perhaps in 7.0 the light will be different. But flat, depressed lips will not turn into plump lips in any light. This is physically impossible. And also, another light will not change their outlines.

[Tethan]

The fact is that some characters are better off than others. Saying "my character looks fine" isn't very helpful. Yes, you character may indeed look fine, that doesn't mean they all do.

Example of character that was preserved, and looks like an improvement over the original. Same features, same feeling.



Character where key features were changed. Nose and lips are completely different. Wax doll imposter look.