Character graphical changes are NOT in an acceptable state, please make it optional

[Shiro-Marusu]

I honestly wonder when will people stop engaging with others who approach them in bad faith. The whole back and forth waters down this thread, it's almost sad to see someone from the JP side coming to post here not knowing the dumpster fire that is this thread. It's really embarrassing to see.

It's really obvious because only inflammatory posts rise to the top while feedback gets buried.

Someone who approaches you and tells you 'it's the same character' is right and wrong, it's a pointless statement that provides nothing but a bait for an argument. This person isn't interested in hearing you out, they already made their mind up. Then you have dismissive statements that strive to invalidate and minimize without actually trying to create a healthy respectful discussion.

I admit I sort of fell for this myself earlier. I wanted to know if others saw the same differences I did, not necessarily whether they thought the differences were /acceptable/. Nevertheless, I think it was partly my poor wording and I didn't particularly mind the feedback I got as I know for myself what I see and want, but I did realise that it was derailing the topic at hand. When I see this back and forth between players now, I worry that the actual feedback will be obscured and unnoticed. I can only hope the JP thread will be more succesful at this point, but I'll keep looking.

[SongOfTheWind]

I honestly wonder when will people stop engaging with others who approach them in bad faith. The whole back and forth waters down this thread, it's almost sad to see someone from the JP side coming to post here not knowing the dumpster fire that is this thread. It's really embarrassing to see.

It's really obvious because only inflammatory posts rise to the top while feedback gets buried.

Someone who approaches you and tells you 'it's the same character' is right and wrong, it's a pointless statement that provides nothing but a bait for an argument. This person isn't interested in hearing you out, they already made their mind up. Then you have dismissive statements that strive to invalidate and minimize without actually trying to create a healthy respectful discussion.

My guess is “never”. I wish moderators were more active here to keep it on topic.

[Rudje]

The problem is partially that small changes in the face are quite major and can drastically change the feel of a face, and a lot of the changes (viera....) are not minor changes and are actually pretty jarring if they're meant to be 1:1 replacements. The other problem is that if people want the EN forums to stick to a single thread, we need not only mods to direct people to a single united feedback thread but also mods telling those who keep insisting that the before and after is identical to stop posting and neither are in any evidence at all.

[Tsumdere]

The problem is partially that small changes in the face are quite major and can drastically change the feel of a face, and a lot of the changes (viera....) are not minor changes and are actually pretty jarring if they're meant to be 1:1 replacements. The other problem is that if people want the EN forums to stick to a single thread, we need not only mods to direct people to a single united feedback thread but also mods telling those who keep insisting that the before and after is identical to stop posting and neither are in any evidence at all.

The small changes in faces are not major. If the change drastically changes the face, it's not a small change. Lips being slightly curved different (looking at you Miqos) is on a different level than Au Ra Face 4 looking like a balloon or Veenas having Rava eyes. Again - not that they don't matter, because they do, but people who don't look at your character 24/7 literally don't see them and are likely to get pissy about yet another thread of a character that looks identical to 99.8% of other people. How many threads on a few nose pixels - each face on a different thread btw - that pushed certain, more major discussions back 150+ posts back on page 10? Not an exaggeration. Insanity.

What I was saying is that if you're going to point out the little things, make sure those little things are adequately pointed out or it's just hot air that is effectively useless to everyone.

[Rudje]

The small changes in faces are not major. If the change drastically changes the face, it's not a small change. Lips being slightly curved different (looking at you Miqos) is on a different level than Au Ra Face 4 looking like a balloon or Veenas having Rava eyes. Again - not that they don't matter, because they do, but people who don't look at your character 24/7 literally don't see them and are likely to get pissy about yet another thread of a character that looks identical to 99.8% of other people. How many threads on a few nose pixels - each face on a different thread btw - that pushed certain, more major discussions back 150+ posts back on page 10? Not an exaggeration. Insanity.

What I was saying is that if you're going to point out the little things, make sure those little things are adequately pointed out or it's just hot air that is effectively useless to everyone.

And being an ass about people struggling to articulate their problems because they lack the training to put it into words isn't helping either, and is making things way worse in the EN forums. People are expressing upset and being attacked because they're having problems articulating precisely what they're noticing and it's far worse for getting feedback than people providing kind of mid feedback themselves are.

E: also, I just don't agree that these are super minor changes. These are major stylistic shifts that seem to only exist in pursuit of poorly-done realism, in a game where realism was never the visual focus in the first place.

[Tsumdere]

And being an ass about people struggling to articulate their problems because they lack the training to put it into words isn't helping either, and is making things way worse in the EN forums. People are expressing upset and being attacked because they're having problems articulating precisely what they're noticing and it's far worse for getting feedback than people providing kind of mid feedback themselves are.

E: also, I just don't agree that these are super minor changes. These are major stylistic shifts that seem to only exist in pursuit of poorly-done realism, in a game where realism was never the visual focus in the first place.

Training? It's not rocket science. Open up MSPaint and draw circles around offending points. It doesn't require words. Posting two pictures side by side with no guide saying "I'm devastated and ruined it's not the same character" is not helpful.

Ironically, Rava don’t have Rava’s eyes anymore too. At least not male Ravas. Both clans pupils got changed to look the same.

lmao I always played Veena so I didn't notice that Rava was different too.

[Rueby]

Training? It's not rocket science. Open up MSPaint and draw circles around offending points. It doesn't require words. Posting two pictures side by side with no guide saying "I'm devastated and ruined it's not the same character" is not helpful.

Yes, some people in this thread have been emotional and perhaps unreasonable but the responses these people get only breed frustration and contempt from both sides. It seems really simple 'just pull the ms paint and point at it' but what if they don't know exactly where to point? Something feels off and they don't know how to express it. I'd like to think these emotional responses stem out of a deep love for their character and I can't help but sympathize with them.

To put it bluntly, not many people have an eye trained for detail to be able to pinpoint exactly what is bothering them. When I first looked at my character I knew something was off immediately but I didn't know exactly what it was until I booted up the Bench and game CC and photoshop and spent way too long trying to get perfect shots. I have a pretty ok-ish background on art, and it's something I'm passionate about, someone else might not be able to pick on what I'm seeing or is struggling to put it in words or even diagrams.

Anyone chiming in going like 'just do it 4head' 'it's that simple' 'it's not rocket science' just causes frustration. While I encourage people to go into MSPaint or whatever free digital program to try and express their issues, I'm also sympathetic that not everyone has the means to. I was exhausted spending all day trying to fight the CC to try and make comparisons.

I mentioned it before, your eye (observation, eye for details) is essentially a skill that levels up combined with some basic knowledge about the human face/body/proportion/lighting/perspective people can pinpoint something that bothers them. Without that basic knowledge, I'd imagine someone might struggle and I can't fault them. Showing compassion to someone who is struggling to express themselves because they lack a skill- even if they're in an emotional state, can go a long way.

I could for example take two pictures but the angle is slightly different, and I start comparing them. The comparison isn't fair because things aren't kept constant. I don't know whether this is a prespective/angle change, or an actual change.

[SongOfTheWind]

[I]lmao I always played Veena so I didn't notice that Rava was different too.

To be clear, I am not sure if female Rava eyes changed. I have this reference I grabbed from here Benchmark state


And this is for male Vieras, where Rava’s pupil got enlarged while Veena got it smaller to be unified for both clans. (and I can’t find the post I took this picture from, sorry)

So it looks like both genders now share the same eyes. And who knows how many other races tbh (elezen? hyur?)
I wish it was an asset switch bug or smth between the clans. But given they both got changed - it looks more like a redesign. And of a clan signature feature no less. With how CC is limited it is upsetting to see even more generalisation happening.

[SongOfTheWind]

) is on a different level than Au Ra Face 4 looking like a balloon or Veenas having Rava eyes.

Ironically, Rava don’t have Rava’s eyes anymore too. At least not male Ravas. Both clans pupils got changed to look the same.

[Shiro-Marusu]

Lips being slightly curved different (looking at you Miqos) is on a different level than Au Ra Face 4 looking like a balloon or Veenas having Rava eyes.

Not that I don't necessarily agree with the message of your post, but even this comparison is subjective. To me the new Miqo mouth makes the mouth look (much) wider in strong lighting and on the female miqo's it gives a clear doll-like effect that makes me think of cabbage patch kids, lol
Meanwhile, I actually don't see the differences on Au Ra faces or Veena's eyes as much, probably because I am much less familiar with those face types.

So all I want to say is, let's try to not make it into a competition of which differences are more obvious than others, because you can't really tell.

I would say your advice goes to anyone who wants to point out a difference, because it may seem much smaller to others.