Character graphical changes are NOT in an acceptable state, please make it optional

[twobear]

If they do decide to do something I at least hope they don't withold the update from everyone. Seeing how my character looked with the changes is the first thing that's actually gotten me excited for Dawntrail.

[Doopliss]

If they do decide to do something I at least hope they don't withold the update from everyone. Seeing how my character looked with the changes is the first thing that's actually gotten me excited for Dawntrail.

I suspect that this feeling is the main reason there are many people butting heads on this matter. Again, as someone who admittedly doesn't want these character changes at all, I fully believe, realistically, they're going to push out this update on time in one way or another. I don't believe a rollback is happening.

Instead I'd just like to reiterate on a point I attempted to make earlier: I just ask that you try to look at things with empathy. From your icon, I think your Seawolf is very handsome, and I don't doubt the update makes him look even cooler.

However, I just ask that you consider there are some people who had that same level of excitement as you do now suddenly stripped away in place of fear, because their characters weren't as lucky. They're small things, but would it not make the anticipation even a little worse for you if his smile caused his brow bone to clip into his eyes? Or if his hair suddenly had more gaps in it? Or if it now felt like he was forced to wear deep lipstick and eyeliner no matter what you do?

I apologize if these come off as attacks, I only mean to ask them as small, random references for consideration. When I say "far more people likely enjoy how their characters look now, than those who like the changes" I mean that the former sentiment includes even those who do like the changes, if that makes sense.

The changes everyone's asking for, would, ideally, keep characters you believe look beautiful in the current update looking beautiful after any changes. Especially if you think there aren't many differences. We just want all cases to be able to keep the facial features and impressions they have now, so that even those you feel are silly can go into a new adventure with excitement alongside you, rather than against.

Currently, I'm very much not eager to play my characters in a state I feel downgraded them, which is how I assume you'll feel if they need to take things back a notch temporarily. But, I mean...I'm willing to deal with it if we're communicated with for once. If they're listening, and caring, and if it's going to take longer than 2 months, I want to know, and I want updates. I think we all do.

Nobody wants to wait through silence during several month patch cycles just hoping and guessing.

[twobear]

I suspect that this feeling is the main reason there are many people butting heads on this matter. Again, as someone who admittedly doesn't want these character changes at all, I fully believe, realistically, they're going to push out this update on time in one way or another. I don't believe a rollback is happening.

Instead I'd just like to reiterate on a point I attempted to make earlier: I just ask that you try to look at things with empathy. From your icon, I think your Seawolf is very handsome, and I don't doubt the update makes him look even cooler.

However, I just ask that you consider there are some people who had that same level of excitement as you do now suddenly stripped away in place of fear, because their characters weren't as lucky. They're small things, but would it not make the anticipation even a little worse for you if his smile caused his brow bone to clip into his eyes? Or if his hair suddenly had more gaps in it? Or if it now felt like he was forced to wear deep lipstick and eyeliner no matter what you do?

The thing is, I absolutely want things to be fixed; at the very least, I don't play any of these races, so why wouldn't I. But we now seem to be moving into an even more dramatic phase where the entire thing should be abandoned or started from scratch because of very minor changes that hopefully can be fixed. Or the frankly disingenous argument that you can find particular lighting angles where the models don't look amazing (disingenuous considering how easy it is to find bad lighting environments currently).

Not that it's especially relevant but I think my own character has received bigger changes from the update than most of the characters getting posted. They've really changed the roughness of Roegadyn skin, and the way the lips look now makes his mouth a little wider than before. I'll probably swap to one of the slightly smaller mouths. I might even change the skin tone slightly because of the way it looks under the new light. But I don't want those taken away and replaced with a more conservative update across the board, as some people now seem to be suggesting. Yes, to a certain extent there is a 'reinterpretation' of the character going on, but I don't see how you can avoid that when you're doing a major visual overhaul. It's still my character just because he no longer has skin like a pumice stone.

Basically I hope that the developers are able to see that the things that are needed are minor changes and don't abandon what I think is by and large very good work.

[Reinha]

No jokes aside. There will be almost certainly no changes until release. This should be impossible because of how close the release is. Every Dev will tell you that. Our experience with older releases show the same. For possible changes the Benchmark would have released on the first or second month of the year.

Anyone who thinks the myriad flaws are getting fixed in 2 months is coping hard. These new assets were made last year, folks. They are doing tiny finishing touches on the expansion and creating 7.2 patch content right now. People who, like me, do not want to play their mangled character anymore are better off exploring other character creation options in the benchmark.

The best we can hope for is that someone is currently writing a slightly apologetic Lodestone post detailing how and when we get those free fantasias they mentioned in a live event.

[AirisRay]

I also want to say one thing. I hear a lot of opinions that this is not the final version, that our characters can still be corrected/repaired. I certainly sincerely hope so. But are our characters really such an insignificant thing that needs to be finalized in the last 2 months? Is it true?

I'm reading opinions that fixes may continue after 7.0 is released. And I really hope for this too. But the question is the same. Our characters are so unimportant that they need to be improved after the release of 7.0? Maybe it would be better to make them really neat and beautiful so that we could all be happy? Make this a priority. And to refine and correct not our characters, but the environment. Some unimportant flowers, trees, stones.

Maybe I'm wrong, of course. And the stone that is lying somewhere in Il Mheg is more important than my character. May be. Maybe NPC models that I only see during the main story are more important than my character that I see every day. Anything is possible. The question is about priorities. They have their own priorities, and now I have mine too.

[slippdipp]

The environment got the "priority" because there's a bigger volume of things to rehaul texture-wise, and also because yes, you are looking at the environment more than your character. Rarely will you be as zoomed in when in-game as you are in the character creator. An updated, "4k" character in an non-updated world is more jarring than the opposite, especially in XIV's case where the environment lagged behind the general quality of the character models.

[Doopliss]

The environment got the "priority" because there's a bigger volume of things to rehaul texture-wise, and also because yes, you are looking at the environment more than your character. Rarely will you be as zoomed in when in-game as you are in the character creator. An updated, "4k" character in an non-updated world is more jarring than the opposite, especially in XIV's case where the environment lagged behind the general quality of the character models.

I know your intentions are good, but, again, this argument feels subjective and dismissive.

They reassured people that characters would be changed as little as possible because they knew that's what people would be most worried about. People don't get scared about how updates affect terrain or gear.

I understand that some folk may appear dramatic in your eyes, but with such a character-focused, cutscene-driven, and long-running game, I ask that you forgive some--myself included--for being emotional.

Square doesn't communicate with us regularly like they did in ARR and HW, and fixes for some egregious matters (like giving Hrothgar their ears back) had come out slowly without any hint they were working on it. That took three-four months. I still remember the male Viera naming thread asking for a simple acknowledgement or updates, and we heard nothing for three and a half months until the names were suddenly there.

Not showing us the state of our characters heads-on like this--when they're not only looking different, but also very, very buggy--until only about 2 months before early access is...questionable, at best.

[Scintilla]

I also want to say one thing. I hear a lot of opinions that this is not the final version, that our characters can still be corrected/repaired. I certainly sincerely hope so. But are our characters really such an insignificant thing that needs to be finalized in the last 2 months? Is it true?

I'm reading opinions that fixes may continue after 7.0 is released. And I really hope for this too. But the question is the same. Our characters are so unimportant that they need to be improved after the release of 7.0? Maybe it would be better to make them really neat and beautiful so that we could all be happy? Make this a priority. And to refine and correct not our characters, but the environment. Some unimportant flowers, trees, stones.

Maybe I'm wrong, of course. And the stone that is lying somewhere in Il Mheg is more important than my character. May be. Maybe NPC models that I only see during the main story are more important than my character that I see every day. Anything is possible. The question is about priorities. They have their own priorities, and now I have mine too.

But this is very much the point: you never will make everyone happy because everyone has a very different idea of what they want. Just the texture of the skin for example. Some like the new skin textures. Some say it's too plastic-like, fake looking, doll-like. Alternatively, some are saying the complete opposite, arguing that it's too textured for what they want. Whatever change they make, someone is going to be unhappy.

I would agree that, ideally, a preview of these changes should have been released much earlier than this, giving more time for adjustments as necessary. But perhaps there were behind-scene reasons that this wasn't the case. I very much doubt it was done out of malice or disregard for our characters and to suggest that this is actually the case is both irrational and disrespectful.

[AirisRay]

She got dimples, otherwise she looks the same? The lips, again, are universally a problem, but she genuinely looks the same. I say this as an artist too. Please, step away and take a few days break because you and a lot of people in this thread are very obviously overanalyzing the littlest differences and blowing them up in your mind.

And I'm telling you, as someone who has worked with her pics for 2.5 years almost every day: her lips are diametrically opposed to what they are now. The model is made poorly. There is no texture on the upper lip. Both lips are flat and have no volume. A dent that extends horizontally through the lips and affects part of the adjacent area is a serious modeling error.
Are you sure you're an artist? And I'm not going anywhere. I'm trying to get this fixed. And I have every right to do so. Don't give me unnecessary advice. When I consider it necessary to touch the grass, I will touch it without consulting you on this matter, thank you.

They are similar. I'll go one further, they are very similar.

Are they identical? Well no, the face on the right to me looks a little rounder, the hair is a different, greyer hue, the eyes are a little more widely spaced.

I hope they can tweak those things for you, but to insist they don't look similar is wild.

The upper part of the face suits me completely. Oval face too. The problem is in the lips. But thanks for your opinion.

The changes around the mouth are very startling, there is also a huge gap between your face and the hair on lower right pic. It really is rough.

Thank you very much for your support! Yes, her mouth looks absolutely terrible. And even despite the almost identical upper part of the face, it is the mouth that makes she now unrecognizable.

What is with gap in the head showing sky under??

Yes, I noticed this hole too. But I don't give it much importance now because she will have a different hairstyle anyway and in general it's not as important as her mouth.

[Loggos]

I'm an artist too and I do think these changes make the characters look different so I don't know how helpful these appeals to our perceived creative authority* are.

A person that has spent lots of time with their own char can still understand their visual make up better due to extensive familiarity despite not necessarily being able to draw/paint/sculpt (and I don't even know if Airis isn't an artist themselves).

As a matter of fact, changing features like a mouth's shape can already lead to a very different appearance and characterisation. That's why you can change a person's holistically perceived appeal and appearance just by doing their lips differently with makeup (overlining them vs gradient for example). They might legit feel like different features as a result.

The change of my own char's lip shape alone has completely altered her whole vibe for me. She now looks like a doll even though the eyes and nose are relatively similar/the same. A small feature change can recontextualise the whole face and change our perception of the other features (or the "sum" of a face they create).

--

*(Small clarification: I don't mean this in a way of "you're not actually a good artist" just in case it comes across that way. I'm very sorry if it does (genuinely).
Rather I mean that, only because we have acquired a certain skill, we are obviously not all-knowing and even within a group artists can profoundly disagree. I just don't think being an artist trumps the experience of someone who has looked at their char for several years and is very familiar with them only because they might not have studied colour theory.)