Thread: 7.0 Graphic Update - Elezen feedback

Part 3 of feedback:

"While I can see changes to my beloved hook nose I will concede that at least in profile the shape is nearly identical. Like others observed there has generally been a lessening of the details that made the nose unique. Raised ridge, bigger septum, nostril shortening.



I'm going to try to list things out, starring the things that I think are issues that especially need to be changed/fixed because they are errors rather than just somewhat expected (if unwanted) differences caused by increased poly count and modelling changes.

☆☆• Face 2 Duskwight face textures have been swapped for Wildwood textures?

☆• Lips have been reshaped

☆• Eyebrows have been thickened

• Ears have been made bigger and more rounded in the middle and lobe regions

☆• Lips are darker by default which causes issues with lipstick

• The edges of lips have a hard edge instead of the previous gentle transition

☆• The bizarre 'milk mustache' above the upper lip

• My chin has been made bigger and more round in profile

• My lower lip has been plumped.

☆• Mottled skin textures, especially on my cheeks

• Very flat lip lighting/sheen

☆• Elongated dark smudges about 2cm long on either side of my mouth?

☆☆• Texture issues in eyelid region (very visible during blink animation)

• Harsher, darker eyelashes (not thicker from above though??)

• Lack of eyeshine and dark upper iris making my lids appear lower and changing my default expression

• Angular facial geometry in cheeks seems smoothed which changes the harsher look of the race (possibly just the faulty benchmark lighting)

• Hair lighting has changed; seems more matte, less hue variation between lit and shadowed areas

___

Changes I've seen in other players:

• Face skintone now seems very one-note and unalive

• Waxiness

• Harsher eye makeup that appears too dark or stark

• Removal of texture detail that was unique to individual faces, especially in eye regions

• Moon Miqo fangs drastically shortened"

Part 4 of feedback:

"In seeing all of this unfold I've been dismayed to notice a lot of the unique charm of faces across the board being airbrushed away, from subtle shading in eye areas on various viera faces, to expressive and quirky default expressions being toned down and made more average in Elezen girls and Miqo girls, to wrinkles disappearing from older faces, to facial topology that created personality via cast shadows being rounded and smoothed and lightened into nonexistence. The result is consistently a more calm, mature, generic look. A lot of female characters' makeup has turned weirdly harsh, sharp-edged, and dark so that it more closely resembles stage makeup, both eye and lip. Then the awkwardly single-toned skin tops things off with me left feeling that very few looks are 'upgrades' even when the owner is happy with the result.

A couple side notes: Something odd is happening to the hairline on this style near the middle? Looks like an error. My racial gear necklaces have changed from a visible leather texture to some unidentifiable line-y texture?

We know they're listening and I appreciate that."

End feedback

The biggest thing they're missing on all skin tones is natural contouring, it's all very flat now & in the update & the shiny rubber look makes skin tones even more hollow looking.

I've never used the XIV forums before so I apologise if I mess up something while trying to post this reply here! But I thought I'd throw in some of my Elezen update thoughts I won't really be going into the lighting issues since that IS something that has been officially addressed, this is more about the face textures and mesh changes, a lot of which has already been pointed out by others in this thread but I still want to put in my own feedback regardless <:3 Benchmark pics on the left and the current graphics on the right!

This is my main boy, Lumi! I actually use the type 1 ear shape in game, but I'll be changing them to type 2 in Dawntrail since I really like how the new version looks! I've always envisioned him with somewhat droopy ears but didn't like how the type 2 ears looked previously to use them :') I have temporarily swapped the ears in the live version of the CC to type 2 though for comparison's sake.



Things I Like
I love the new eye textures and ears! I also think the new eyelashes are really nice as they were barely noticeable on the old version (personal preference/style etc etc Lumi canonically has Very long pretty eyelashes that match his hair/eyebrow colour when I draw him but I don't have that option in game, so seeing him with more prominent eyelashes now is very nice <:3)

Things I Don't Like / Am On The Fence About
Eyebags
This one's my main issue. Duskwights seem to have SUPER prominent dark eyebags in the graphics update akin to what Wildwood Elezen have always had, and now makes Lumi's gaze look very intense as opposed to his previous softer, gentler look. It gets worse when zoomed out too and in the benchmark test ;_; The shadows under the eyebrows are also very dark.




Eyebrows
Not too bothered by the thickness being changed but moreso the angle? The new shape looks furrowed and angry in place of the old straight and softer looking shape...



Some mesh changes
Noticed that his nose tip is less pointy and that his chin has gotten more squared? (See all above pictures for the chin shape changes) I liked his old rounder chin shape.



Mouth shape
Aside from the top lip texture not aligning with the corners of his mouth anymore, his cupids bow has gotten sharper and slightly wider, but I'm not too bothered by it.



Also an extra thing I'd like to point out, I'm not sure if this affects every ear shape or if it's a lighting issue but I've noticed this strange crease along the back of the ears on all of my Elezen?



I will post some feedback on some of my other Elezen later!

Originally Posted by SpiritMuse

Thank you so much for doing all this work to compile all our posts! Though it seems a couple of the links are broken, specifically the ones that show a url instead of something like "example 1".

Thanks for the catch! I've attempted to fix them, let me know which posts if there are still any containing broken links.

I assembled a proper comparison picture for Sylviel:



Character settings:

Face 2
Skin 24,4
Hair 1,3
Jaw 4

EYES
Shape 4
Iris L
Colour 13,6
Brows 4

EARS
Shape 3
Size 25

Nose 4
Mouth 4
No lip colour

Features: (4) scar on left cheek

Tattoos: (1) right
Colour: 19,8 - Blue 8 (RGB 28,32,39)

Paint: none

I don't think the altered version captures the mood of the original face at all.

I love his current appearance and that it gives the feeling of a very calm, solemn sort of person, which has influenced how I've imagined the character since I made this initial design.

The updated face is harder to read, but the eyebrows have changed to be more slanted and more of a determined look instead of the very horizontal position of the original, in addition to being thicker.

The addition of dark circles under the eyes makes him look either tired, annoyed or "over it".

The face shape has changed in general, but I think people have gone into that in detail elsewhere.

Apart from the expression, the scar has changed from actually looking like a jagged cut on the face in the original model, to a textureless brown line that might as well have been painted on.

I forgot to take an additional screenshot, but if the left side Duskwight tattoo is turned on, the scar slashes through it and breaks it up. Again, in the current model that looks convincing, but in the changed model the brown line looks just as flat as the tattoo.

Originally Posted by Iscah

The addition of dark circles under the eyes makes him look either tired, annoyed or "over it".

I really dislike this on my own male Duskwight. When I first saw him in the benchmark I immediately thought it makes him look like he's a user of unauthorized medications or hasn't slept in days.

Sadly with both my female and male Elezens being altered that leaves me no Elezen characters I'd enjoy after launch, if these changes persist.

I'm sorry if my feedback isn't as detailed as others with drawovers and such but I just wanted to speak up. I haven't seen a lot of feedback regarding the specific features my character uses.

Many subtle changes result in a face I didn't recognize as the same person.

<Mouth Type 2>

The lip shape change is so obvious I don't know what else to say. The top lip contour has completely changed.
Where the lips meet has become more of a straight line and the top lips lost plumpness.
The slight cleft in the bottom lip contour has been rounded out.
The original lips are a really beautiful shape, please preserve them.
I miss the option to give a high gloss effect on the lips by changing the lip color. In the new character creator it applies only matte color to the lips.
I would like it if the shine was still an option, even without having to add extra color.

<Face Type 1, Jaw Type 1>

The high cheekbone and shadow contour that previously gave a more gaunt/hollow cheeks impression is now gone.
The jaw, chin, and lower half of the face overall looks more plump and rounded out.
The combined effect is that the character looks 10 years younger than he does in the live version.

<Eyebrow Type 2>
The eyebrow shape is different. I noticed on all the eyebrows for this face (Wildwood Face 1) the outside edge of the eyebrow has a "notch." Where the hair texture seems to have a small gap in the bottom.
It seems like a copy-paste error.
The inside part of the eyebrow is also no longer tapered but I personally do not mind it.
The eyebrows, while different, I don't think are detrimental to recognizing the face.

<Eye Shape Type 4, Iris Size Large>

The eyes I would describe as looking too "young." The dark circles under the eyes align differently to the bottom of the eye, which may be making them appear de-emphasized.
It seems like the upper eyelid, inner brow and eyelash contour has been lifted, or changed in a way that makes the eyes overall look bigger and gives a more alert expression.
This undermines the tired, placid expression that appealed to me when I created him.
Not specific to my character but I noticed that the sclera of the eyes seem unnaturally bright in some situations. Even when the face is in shadow the whites of the eyes pop out and it looks odd almost like the eyes are glowing from within.

To be completely fair, I can kind of see the appeal of this young fresh-faced twerp I see in the benchmark but it just simply isn't the face I know anymore.
I think many people who chose to play male Elezen embrace their more harsh features and I don't appreciate changes that result in him looking de-aged and "prettified" overall.
I think these subtle changes would be nice additional options to add to suit other tastes, not as replacements.

Further to my post the other day, I did an edited version of the benchmark screenshot:



To repeat the notes on the image:

Issues with the benchmark appearance:

• eyebrow position and thickness (type 4) has changed and altered the character's expression
• sharp crease under the lower eyelid (note the changed angle of the tattoo under the eye)
• dark shadows under the eyes
• scar looks flat

Adjustments in the lower picture:

• eyebrows shifted (still not quite right)
• erased shadows under the eyes
• slightly darker shading line on edge of scar

In the process of doing this, as I mentioned in the notes, I noticed that the shape of the face around the eyes has clearly been altered and it's not just a matter of different lighting, because the tattoo now has a sharp bend under the eyelid. I can't find any angle where it does that on the original model.




I'm still not keen on the shifted art style, but the edits at least bring it back to looking mostly like the same face.