Benchmark/Graphics Update - Show your WoL's before and after

[Fatch38]

i don't know how i feel about it, in cc it felt off but ine the benchmark with facial expression etc it felt same-ish

current

bench

finally understood what felt off, even if i'm totally fine with the update, with the current graphics my char looks like she's in her 30 while she look in her 20 in the benchmark (and the scar being too "clean" and thinner)

[Merrigan]

To reiterate these quotes from what you should have read, there are people in the forum are reacting negatively to the benchmark updates rather than positive. So while yes you feel like nothing has changed which you are entitled to your opinion, you aren't playing our characters and know their identity/personality.

Overall, there is change and while yes the benchmark is not set in stone there are problems both JP and NA have brought up. If this is what they have to show then I as well as others whom express how we feel in this forum aren't happy with the changes or something seems off.

... Wait, you can get away with any criticism with that argument. The fact is, the difference between the two screenshots is minimal. Unlike other characters where there are more significant changes.

You can expect a graphic change to respect the colours; not to change your character's passive expression; or not to cause glitches. But you can't expect it to respect the psychological projection you have of your character - that projection exists only in your eyes, and nowhere else.

[Yencat]

So while yes you feel like nothing has changed which you are entitled to your opinion, you aren't playing our characters and know their identity/personality.

I think this is exactly why people can't see eye to eye on this; The characters and their faces don't inherently have a distinct identity or a personality beyond what individual players ascribe to them. What you perceive in a face probably isn't what I see in that face, and it might not be what someone else reads in that same face.

There are of course some differences between the faces, but they are very broad strokes that most everyone can see, ie; slightly younger and softer looking vs. more rough or somewhat older.

No one is necessarily wrong here, but no one is objectively right either? I don't envy the devs.

[Doozer]

Same settings as in game... Left is current, right is benchmark char creation. His whole face looks flat and dark, lips have no shine at all, eyes look dead and far too dark, eye makeup is all messed up and weird looking. And the worst offense, you can't see his eyelashes at all. I can't say I am happy about any of that at all. On the other hand my moon kitty looks great. But this is unacceptable.

I have a similar problem to yours though I've already mentioned it so I won't go on about it again, but I wanted to say -- I really like what you did with the tattoo and makeup options. I picked the same options but just for a dark smokey eye look, whereas yours is like a cool colourful gradient. Sucks that the update messed that up.

[Loggos]

The characters and their faces don't inherently have a distinct identity or a personality beyond what individual players ascribe to them...
There are of course some differences between the faces, but they are very broad strokes that most everyone can see, ie; slightly younger and softer looking vs. more rough or somewhat older.

But that is one of the primary points of contention. The homogenization of the existing face options (e.g., au ra females all becoming relatively similar and cute-ish) and objective changes to distinguishing features of the (limited) pre-sets.

It's not about whether anybody else can read the detailed personality we have headcanon-ed from our characters' faces.

It's that the existing faces were/are a canvas onto which you can project certain ideas.
These ideas are obviously subjective and can go in different directions depending on the person doing the interpretation of certain features. But they are still based on those particular features nonetheless.
E.g., I don't mind if other people don't think au ra face 4 is stern and serious. Some perceive her as rather neutral. That is fair and understandable. The assessment of her perceived personality is subjective.

But you cannot, for example, deny that, her pupils are smaller now. (I don't personally mind the pupils, so the purpose of bringing them up is not to complain about them in particular. I just want to give an easy and quick example of something that has measurably been altered).
That is an objective change.
This change can lead to changes in perception in some people or not (e.g., I think smaller pupils lead to more of a harsh stare etc., others don't think so).
But no matter our interpretation, the pupil's size is different. That is just a fact.

And it's those facts we try to address.

We understand that changing the graphics will lead to some inevitable technical changes. But there is a difference between the former and actively resculpting certain features into other features (lips, nose smudges, eye shapes, etc. etc.).

So, some of what the devs did doesn't seem like mere upgrading but like consciously and actively making the decision to change established aesthetics.

And in those cases criticism is completely warranted.

No one is necessarily wrong here, but no one is objectively right either? I don't envy the devs.

I don't really agree with this sentiment because it's seems a bit all-or-nothing to me. As in, since it'll never be the case that everybody is happy nothing can really be done perfectly right, so on the flipside the current criticism is also somewhat pointless because nobody can be right or wrong.

Imagine a line and the point where everybody is happy is *somewhere* in the middle. You know roughly where it should be but not where exactly it's located.

Only because you cannot pinpoint that one perfect sweet spot doesn't mean you can't look towards the outer ends of the line and conclude that over there something isn't right and you need to move closer to the middle. You don't know how far but you know you need to move somewhat.

So imo it's better to try to at least get a little closer. That's better than saying it has no point and staying closer to the poles.
That's how I see it with features.

I completely understand that any kind of upgrade will lead to some changes. But as long as I can see that they don't actively try to remodel existing features beyond what would be needed to upscale their quality (like making convex lips concave) I can easily accept and compromise.

I can also readily accept that some people will find the new features better. I would prefer if we get more options instead of replacing old ones.

[GH0ST]

... Wait, you can get away with any criticism with that argument. The fact is, the difference between the two screenshots is minimal. Unlike other characters where there are more significant changes.

You can expect a graphic change to respect the colours; not to change your character's passive expression; or not to cause glitches. But you can't expect it to respect the psychological projection you have of your character - that projection exists only in your eyes, and nowhere else.

You are correct when it comes to where other peoples characters have a much more significant/drastic change compared to the ones I have with my very own I've noticed which seems very little compared to their own issues. And also agree with how there is also a psychological projection people have their characters (my own included) whether they played for long or short time frame which can also effect how people feel and react over it.


Especially towards Viera and a few other faces from the other races that changes the style/look. I feel bad for some male/female bun players especially as it is a quite difference and they are not happy with it as well. The mouth shape for elezen for certain expressions also are a issue as well among other things each race and said face for said races.

[Remish]

My before and after. Still not sure how I feel.

Before:


After:

[CecMiller]

And yes I ran the benchmark (multiple times in fact) so I don't wanna hear the "oh try it on bench surely it will look better there and will feel like your character."

It doesn't for me. This literally looks and feels like a face 2 clone which no I don't want to have the same face as fish face (which me and my friends call it) other wise I would have picked it when I first swapped when they were introduced in the game in HW.

-Eye shape has been altered, losing the sharp edge of eye shape which I loved and the eyes appear to be staring soullessly as opposed to the pleasant resting stare that I felt with the original. There is also more prominent eye bags which I don't like as well.

- Eyes are more further apart as well as larger giving her a bug eye look compared to the sharpness I liked from before. (I tried another eye option but, she looks sleepy and not narrowed like before which is a no).

-Lips literally look like she is forever doing duck lips. And lost the sharpness of her lips overall and the lower lip looks like she has lip filler. I have tried the other ones they are just as bad. I rather liked the less glossy lip texture as well. Upper lip also lost the very sharp curve like viera did which is also not cool.

-Jaw/Cheeks looks like she got stung by a bee which I also had my friends look at the two pictures of her as well and this thing. She also lost the sharpness of the face which I am extremely sad about as well and that's what made me like face 1 so much is cuz it's similar to face 4 for the sharp face and how it's not round like 2 or 3. Her chin also lost the sharpness I liked as well and seems to be elongated as well which I am not happy about as well.

I don't want to swap to a race I don't like which is a majority of them.

You're spot on with the changes. You're not crazy and you're character does give off a different look because of the change to make au ra more "cutesy" and some design decisions e.g. larger pupils, mouth changes, eye shape changes etc.

https://imgsli.com/MjU2NzUx

You can see a before and after of your character here (with an image slider):https://imgsli.com/MjU2NzUx. Use the image slider and go over the blue coloured eye (or the red one) and you'll see the difference.

It really shows how the eye shape has changed e.g. smaller and the top eyelashes are less pronounced. I really dislike the large pupils too. They've been made to look more "cutesy" which is why some people have trouble spotting the differences - either because they've not used that face before or they're somehow face blind.

[Merrigan]

My before and after. Still not sure how I feel.

[...]

Dang, I love the new look. Eyes are striking... But there is still this weird "de-aged" look that is quite problematic. Of all the screens, this is the problem that comes up most often in the end.

[Yencat]

snip

Oh, I'm not saying there are 0 changes beyond people's own perception of the faces, I have posted my own feedback both in this thread and the Viera thread! There definitely are issues, mouths especially seem pretty universally scuffed on every race and gender.

People that have an issue should absolutely post their feedback and try their best to highlight what the issue with it is. I'm just musing that "vibes", "feel", "identity", and "personality" are so nebulous but I see it used as feedback quite often since the benchmark came out and it doesn't really mean anything. Or rather it doesn't mean any one thing.