"Enhanced Blacklist Functionality" Safety Concerns

[bp_isa_ff]

I'll start the thread with the opinion it was based off of: "Enhanced Blacklist Functionality" is a band aid on a bullet hole and, at best, a sidegrade to the current Blacklist. While I understand there is value in removing someone from your view, it isn't without risk for the person blacklisting and this post will be explaining some reasons for that.

Firstly, if you can't see them, you don't know what they're doing. If they're near you, anyone else that may be present can see that while you yourself can't even know if they're there. If they're stalking you / doing weird things with your character, everyone else sees that while you yourself can't. If you unlock a new duty while they're following you and you queue there and then because you don't know that they're following you, they can queue snipe you in order to force an interaction inside the duty.

As a result, if you've got them blacklisted for a very severe reason such as the aforementioned stalking, you may not get peace of mind but instead fear what they might be doing. While being stalked in game is scary, not being able to see who is around you and what they are doing can be more scary under the right conditions.

Total model removal would be perfectly safe if it was two way (meaning you are invisible to the people you blacklist, as well as them being invisible to you). While what we're getting is a big big step in the right direction, it's not everything that people were asking for when they requested total model removal.
You shouldn't be surprised if people continue to request total model removal, as the Enhanced Blacklist as currently proposed does not meet the needs of everyone who requested it.

Another concern of mine is that this feature will also result in less stalking and harassment cases actually being resolved; you cannot report stalking and harassment that you don't know about, so less harassment cases are reported, therefore the harassers get a free pass to continue stalking and harassing as opposed to being reported and punished. If the harasser is reported by the victim, the GM inherently knows the victim has not enhanced blacklisted the harasser, so the victim is more likely be blamed for the situation and told to enhanced blacklist the harasser, which may mean the harasser is not punished.
The cynical among us may argue that this could have been intentional; while that is not my personal view, I can see how that conclusion may be reasonably reached.

(Hit character limit, continued in first comment.)

[bp_isa_ff]

There is one saving grace though: the fact you don't have to use it. The new Mute feature appears to work identically to the current Blacklist, so those of us that have safety concerns with the Enhanced Blacklist can use Mute instead. Thank god for that, because had this "Enhanced" Blacklist replaced the current Blacklist I'd no longer have felt safe playing the game and I know I'm not alone in that.
As mentioned before, you shouldn't be surprised if people continue to request total model removal, as the Enhanced Blacklist as currently proposed does not meet the needs of everyone who requested it.

In short, "Enhanced Blacklist Functionality" is "they get to keep stalking and harassing you, you just don't know about it" which is arguably worse than the current Blacklist. We want to be invisible to the people we blacklist as well, instead of only having them invisible to us.

Lastly to praise what was done well, because I don't like that the whole post was negative:
- Term Filter was everything that we asked for, and will be a godsend for everyone.
- Estate Expulsion is also incredible, and all it would take to make it perfect is an option to deny someone entry permanently.

[Bun_Vivant]

In short, "Enhanced Blacklist Functionality" is "they get to keep stalking and harassing you, you just don't know about it" which is arguably worse than the current Blacklist. We want to be invisible to the people we blacklist as well, instead of only having them invisible to us.

Wait, let me see if I understand this correctly: you want to give other people the ability to make themselves invisible to you (by blacklisting you) so that you can't see what they are doing to you?

Don't let the fact that they you are invisible to them as well give you a false sense of security: all they need is a "spotter" character from another account quietly sitting nearby, bothering no one, but letting the "stalker" know everything you are doing.

[LuciferNacht]

snip " I'd no longer have felt safe playing the game and I know I'm not alone in that."

My unpopular opinion here is simply going to be, if your "safety" is compromised by an invisible actor moving around your character in a virtual game - Get Help. You need therapy.

I'm not even trying to be edgy, you are not exhibiting a normal response to a non action in a virtual world. A black listed character under the new system means they cannot interact with you in a meaningful way, if you're going to be sitting there like "omg, are they next to me right now" that says so much about you. To the point where you rather use the lesser tool and mute them instead and watch them harass you? Nah. You want to live in your victimhood. Their erasure from the game and the fact you can hide yourself from them on the lodestone means their power has been stripped away. All the power they have left is in your head and you're handing it to them on a silver platter.

You've emotionally invested too much into this and you're now inventing harassment when you will no longer be able to see the player or see their chat.

I don't even care if this is the "how dare you it's 2024, it's mean to say anything against the victim, you victim blaming monster".

Yeah ok, get therapy and develop healthy coping skills.

Also peeps can hurl insults and reply ad nauseum. I just came to leave this one post. If you feel like OP, you also need to go get a therapist and put your stalkers on the actual blacklist.
---

Anyway that aside,

SE do the friendslist next. That needs a complete revamp, if I remove a friend, it should be removed from their list as well. Also let us friend our alts.

[Boblawblah]

My unpopular opinion here is simply going to be, if your "safety" is compromised by an invisible actor moving around your character in a virtual game - Get Help. You need therapy.

I'm not even trying to be edgy, you are not exhibiting a normal response to a non action in a virtual world. A black listed character under the new system means they cannot interact with you in a meaningful way, if you're going to be sitting there like "omg, are they next to me right now" that says so much about you. To the point where you rather use the lesser tool and mute them instead and watch them harass you? Nah. You want to live in your victimhood. Their erasure from the game and the fact you can hide yourself from them on the lodestone means their power has been stripped away. All the power they have left is in your head and you're handing it to them on a silver platter.

You've emotionally invested too much into this and you're now inventing harassment when you will no longer be able to see the player or see their chat.

I don't even care if this is the "how dare you it's 2024, it's mean to say anything against the victim, you victim blaming monster".

Yeah ok, get therapy and develop healthy coping skills.

Also peeps can hurl insults and reply ad nauseum. I just came to leave this one post. If you feel like OP, you also need to go get a therapist and put your stalkers on the actual blacklist.
---

Anyway that aside,

SE do the friendslist next. That needs a complete revamp, if I remove a friend, it should be removed from their list as well. Also let us friend our alts.

I disagree.

[Reinha]

Their erasure from the game and the fact you can hide yourself from them on the lodestone means their power has been stripped away.

Pretty much. They can't make new alts to harass with and their entire account has been terminated from their former victim's view. All they can do is impotently sit behind their screen while no one notices or cares. It's similar to parasocial losers sending messages to their favorite content creator that will never be read. LMAO

[AzhreiVahlok]

There is one saving grace though: the fact you don't have to use it. The new Mute feature appears to work identically to the current Blacklist, so those of us that have safety concerns with the Enhanced Blacklist can use Mute instead. Thank god for that, because had this "Enhanced" Blacklist replaced the current Blacklist I'd no longer have felt safe playing the game and I know I'm not alone in that.
As mentioned before, you shouldn't be surprised if people continue to request total model removal, as the Enhanced Blacklist as currently proposed does not meet the needs of everyone who requested it.

In short, "Enhanced Blacklist Functionality" is "they get to keep stalking and harassing you, you just don't know about it" which is arguably worse than the current Blacklist. We want to be invisible to the people we blacklist as well, instead of only having them invisible to us.

Lastly to praise what was done well, because I don't like that the whole post was negative:
- Term Filter was everything that we asked for, and will be a godsend for everyone.
- Estate Expulsion is also incredible, and all it would take to make it perfect is an option to deny someone entry permanently.

holy crap the term filter... yes... THANK YOU. no more venue ads clogging MY chat log....

[Jeeqbit]

if you can't see them, you don't know what they're doing.

I have lots of UI windows open over the top of my screen and focus on chatting in FC, LS or tabbing out, so I tend to ignore what people are doing anyway. I doubt I'm alone in that.

If you unlock a new duty while they're following you and you queue there and then because you don't know that they're following you, they can queue snipe you in order to force an interaction inside the duty.

Then you can leave it, or you could just not interact with them and complete the duty. You can do dungeons with NPCs and trials have 8 people so whoever you blacklisted is probably not required to beat the duty.

Let's not forget, that if this does prevent people viewing someone's lodestone profile entirely (even with the URL), then they can transfer and rename and the person should not be able to identify their home world.

Another concern of mine is that this feature will also result in less stalking and harassment cases actually being resolved; you cannot report stalking and harassment that you don't know about

Arguably, if you don't know about it, then they are more likely to get bored, since they are attention-seeking.

[Valence]

Yes I like the new options but putting myself in the shoes of somebody that's being harassed mercilessly, I wouldn't want to use those tools. I would want the GM teams to do something about it OR have reciprocal blacklist functionalities, like what people have asked for ages already, which is friendlist mutual removal for a start. It's maddening that it's still not implement just because "people might feel awkward when somebody gets removed from their FL". We're not just talking about removing someone from the FL (it's fine in this case if it's not mutual), we're literally talking about adding people to a BL.

Still a good step in the right direction though, just doesn't tackle the core issue yet.

[Eastwall]

Yes I like the new options but putting myself in the shoes of somebody that's being harassed mercilessly, I wouldn't want to use those tools. I would want the GM teams to do something about it OR have reciprocal blacklist functionalities, like what people have asked for ages already, which is friendlist mutual removal for a start. It's maddening that it's still not implement just because "people might feel awkward when somebody gets removed from their FL". We're not just talking about removing someone from the FL (it's fine in this case if it's not mutual), we're literally talking about adding people to a BL.

Still a good step in the right direction though, just doesn't tackle the core issue yet.

Yeah, l agree. If you remove someone from your friend list, l can see the argument of not removing on the other side. But this is adding to black list... You would probably rejoice If that person gets into an automobile accident So that person is completely cut off from you