"Enhanced Blacklist Functionality" Safety Concerns

[bp_isa_ff]

I'll start the thread with the opinion it was based off of: "Enhanced Blacklist Functionality" is a band aid on a bullet hole and, at best, a sidegrade to the current Blacklist. While I understand there is value in removing someone from your view, it isn't without risk for the person blacklisting and this post will be explaining some reasons for that.

Firstly, if you can't see them, you don't know what they're doing. If they're near you, anyone else that may be present can see that while you yourself can't even know if they're there. If they're stalking you / doing weird things with your character, everyone else sees that while you yourself can't. If you unlock a new duty while they're following you and you queue there and then because you don't know that they're following you, they can queue snipe you in order to force an interaction inside the duty.

As a result, if you've got them blacklisted for a very severe reason such as the aforementioned stalking, you may not get peace of mind but instead fear what they might be doing. While being stalked in game is scary, not being able to see who is around you and what they are doing can be more scary under the right conditions.

Total model removal would be perfectly safe if it was two way (meaning you are invisible to the people you blacklist, as well as them being invisible to you). While what we're getting is a big big step in the right direction, it's not everything that people were asking for when they requested total model removal.
You shouldn't be surprised if people continue to request total model removal, as the Enhanced Blacklist as currently proposed does not meet the needs of everyone who requested it.

Another concern of mine is that this feature will also result in less stalking and harassment cases actually being resolved; you cannot report stalking and harassment that you don't know about, so less harassment cases are reported, therefore the harassers get a free pass to continue stalking and harassing as opposed to being reported and punished. If the harasser is reported by the victim, the GM inherently knows the victim has not enhanced blacklisted the harasser, so the victim is more likely be blamed for the situation and told to enhanced blacklist the harasser, which may mean the harasser is not punished.
The cynical among us may argue that this could have been intentional; while that is not my personal view, I can see how that conclusion may be reasonably reached.

(Hit character limit, continued in first comment.)

[bp_isa_ff]

There is one saving grace though: the fact you don't have to use it. The new Mute feature appears to work identically to the current Blacklist, so those of us that have safety concerns with the Enhanced Blacklist can use Mute instead. Thank god for that, because had this "Enhanced" Blacklist replaced the current Blacklist I'd no longer have felt safe playing the game and I know I'm not alone in that.
As mentioned before, you shouldn't be surprised if people continue to request total model removal, as the Enhanced Blacklist as currently proposed does not meet the needs of everyone who requested it.

In short, "Enhanced Blacklist Functionality" is "they get to keep stalking and harassing you, you just don't know about it" which is arguably worse than the current Blacklist. We want to be invisible to the people we blacklist as well, instead of only having them invisible to us.

Lastly to praise what was done well, because I don't like that the whole post was negative:
- Term Filter was everything that we asked for, and will be a godsend for everyone.
- Estate Expulsion is also incredible, and all it would take to make it perfect is an option to deny someone entry permanently.

[Jeeqbit]

if you can't see them, you don't know what they're doing.

I have lots of UI windows open over the top of my screen and focus on chatting in FC, LS or tabbing out, so I tend to ignore what people are doing anyway. I doubt I'm alone in that.

If you unlock a new duty while they're following you and you queue there and then because you don't know that they're following you, they can queue snipe you in order to force an interaction inside the duty.

Then you can leave it, or you could just not interact with them and complete the duty. You can do dungeons with NPCs and trials have 8 people so whoever you blacklisted is probably not required to beat the duty.

Let's not forget, that if this does prevent people viewing someone's lodestone profile entirely (even with the URL), then they can transfer and rename and the person should not be able to identify their home world.

Another concern of mine is that this feature will also result in less stalking and harassment cases actually being resolved; you cannot report stalking and harassment that you don't know about

Arguably, if you don't know about it, then they are more likely to get bored, since they are attention-seeking.

[Valence]

Yes I like the new options but putting myself in the shoes of somebody that's being harassed mercilessly, I wouldn't want to use those tools. I would want the GM teams to do something about it OR have reciprocal blacklist functionalities, like what people have asked for ages already, which is friendlist mutual removal for a start. It's maddening that it's still not implement just because "people might feel awkward when somebody gets removed from their FL". We're not just talking about removing someone from the FL (it's fine in this case if it's not mutual), we're literally talking about adding people to a BL.

Still a good step in the right direction though, just doesn't tackle the core issue yet.

[Moqi]

Right, I just said it in another thread but it should go both ways. It's a good first step but it's effectly just covering your eyes and ears. It needs to go both ways and remove the problem at the source.

[Johners]

I don't really see the problem with no removing your character from their screen. At some point you need to stop bickering like children and just move on. Square Enix are giving all players on all platforms the ability to blacklist someone and not see them. Likewise, you can remove them and all their alts from your estate. This is an entirely reasonable solution and doesn't require Square Enix to babysit the community. I've also seen some people complain that blacklisted players can still join your duties via the duty finder. If you honestly expected the developers to completely rewrite the duty finder algorithm to add tons of complexity for each individual blocklist, that copium must be some strong stuff and I want some. Besides, if these people are actually harassing and trolling in duties you can report them because it's already against the terms of service. The only thing I do want Square Enix to add is the two-way removal from the friends list which is standard functionality on literally any other game/platform.

[Valence]

Spoken like someone that's never been truly harassed or stalked.

[Moqi]

Spoken like someone that's never been truly harassed or stalked.

All the opposing replies here and elsewhere are different shades of victim blaming.

[Bun_Vivant]

In short, "Enhanced Blacklist Functionality" is "they get to keep stalking and harassing you, you just don't know about it" which is arguably worse than the current Blacklist. We want to be invisible to the people we blacklist as well, instead of only having them invisible to us.

Wait, let me see if I understand this correctly: you want to give other people the ability to make themselves invisible to you (by blacklisting you) so that you can't see what they are doing to you?

Don't let the fact that they you are invisible to them as well give you a false sense of security: all they need is a "spotter" character from another account quietly sitting nearby, bothering no one, but letting the "stalker" know everything you are doing.

[Valence]

Personally I don't believe much in turning anybody or anything invisible or playing ostrich. It's too full of exploits in both ways to really work.

An easy first step would be to make friendlist removal reciprocal. The lodestone stalk changes are also a good step in that direction, as well as the account wide block application. The mutelist/blacklist could also benefit from removing the possibility to search for the victim ingame (notably for their location).

This is not gonna fix everything though, especially regarding spotters and other elaborate methods used by stalkers, but it certainly makes it a lot harder, especially when one can also detect the spotters easily in non crowded areas and also block them (account wide).


Edit: to be clear I do understand that muting is already a form of making something invisible, which is text and speech. You choose by muting someone not to be able to read anything anymore, and they could be spouting really bad stuff about you already. The obvious culprit here is the total uselessness and training on the side of GMs in this game.