Nerf gil profit from submarine

[LianaThorne]

The real issue or the root cause is SE creating artificial scarcity with the limited ward housing system.

Every issue we've have had with ward housing over the years has been due to this artificial scarcity. Multi-house owners would not be a problem if there was a unlimited or near unlimited supply of housing if SE had implemented a fully instanced housing system right from the start.

RMT house selling is profitable because of the artificial scarcity. If there was no scarcity, there would be no RMT house selling.

Nearly every major MMO which has gone with the route of limited housing has faced similar problems like with FFXIV's ward housing. Here's an article which explains why limited housing in an MMO is a bad idea:
https://www.gamedeveloper.com/busine...housing-crisis

Players need to stop fighting amongst ourselves and ask that SE do better.

We have.
For years.
Literally as long as I've been on this forum I've seen threads asking for instanced housing or some form of apartment upgrade.

We asked for it when people wanted placard camping removed, we got the lottery instead since the playerbase thought that was the right choice.

We literally got Island Sanctuary instead of instanced housing when no one really asked for IS to begin with (which is also running on the housing servers which makes it even more laughable).

They are doing everything in their power to dodge going to an instanced system.

There comes a point where talking at a brick wall over andb over again only makes you look like a fool for trying to talk to one. I've just accepted the situation is what it is.

[Moshimoshikami]

Nerfing submarine salvage:
1. Will not solve the housing issue
2. Will not improve the market board
3. hurts the effort of legit FC

1. Will not solve the housing issue
The people who own hundreds of houses for the sake of submarines were capable of buying them because there was no competition.
These houses are mostly small houses nobody cares about.
On my server, there is countless unused small houses...

2. Will not improve the market board
It is not because a few players are insanely rich that the price of crafted gears, materia, food or pot will increase.
Inflation is a thing, but submarines are not responsible for it.

3. Hurts the effort of legit FC
As stated by many people before, it requires a lot of effort to level-up/gear-up/explore.
Even when the submarines are set-up, it forces you to stay sub to the game and to log-in on a daily basis.
Also gil cap would take multiple years for a single FC...

My opinion:

The only real problem is the unfair advantage some players get by
- Owning many houses via shell FC
- Using third party tool for automation

Increasing the cost of fuel and making it untradable is in my opinion the best solution.
If a FC is real and active they will be able to keep sending their submarines.
If not they will have to stop.

But the only thing that it will solve is the unfair advantage these players have.
Housing and market board will not change.

[Oizen]

I just find it funny that the shell FC problem is so bad that FC housing on my server in dynamis is nearly full on the 3 starting cities, and private houses are mostly plentiful.

Shoutouts to Marilith Goblet ward 1 subdivision being entirely owned by one group dying the entire ward the same shade of light blue, just as yoshida intended

[TwistedTea]

There comes a point where talking at a brick wall over andb over again only makes you look like a fool for trying to talk to one. I've just accepted the situation is what it is.

This is not directed at you but at the players who would rather address the symptoms;house hoarders/sublords/RMTers etc than the root cause.

Sometimes it feels like as players we have just given up on holding SE accountable for a flawed system and getting SE to fix it at the fundamental level.

Guess we can keep doing these housing arguments back and forth with the next set of housing woe scapegoats once submarines are nerfed.

[Commander_Justitia]

Sometimes it feels like as players we have just given up on holding SE accountable for a flawed system and getting SE to fix it at the fundamental level.

Making submarine fuel untradeable is a lot easier to fix than updating or changing the whole system though. And it would already do enough to discourage it I guess.

These "nerf subs" threads are always full of people who just want to keep printing money, so they concern troll about le communal fcs like these are even a major force anymore, just stop. Be real and just say you want to keep printing money. I wouldn't even judge you. This game's market sucks. Being able to make money without dealing with it is great. Just say that. Stop with the bs. It's so tiresome. Every thread is like this. These submarine people pull up to downplay the money they make and cry on behalf of community fcs that have been dead for years

Exactly lol

[george357]

like a submarine this topic will dive and sink to the bottom before they begin necrobumping it back up again.

[ZiraZ]

Increasing the cost of fuel and making it untradable is in my opinion the best solution.
If a FC is real and active they will be able to keep sending their submarines.
If not they will have to stop.

That's genius

[TwistedTea]

Making submarine fuel untradeable is a lot easier to fix than updating or changing the whole system though. And it would already do enough to discourage it I guess.

It might discourage some sublords but let's review the history of trying to apply band-aid solutions:

1. Housing system first came out. FC only housing. Astronomical placard prices. Players asked SE for personal housing and cheaper placard prices.

2. SE implemented personal housing but it was just FC houses without the workshop. SE drastically reduced placard prices. Bots ended up taking all the desirable plots. Players asked SE to do something to fix the bot issue.

3. SE introduced the placard hidden RNG timer. Ended up incentivizing players to bot especially on highly populated worlds unless you wanted carpal tunnel syndrome. Players asked SE to do something to fix the hidden RNG timer.

4. Lottery - Ended up showing just how insufficient the supply of ward housing was in proportion to the server population. And even more competition for mediums/larges since now everyone could just toss in a bid.

5. Players ask SE to do something about mutltiowners/sublords. SE ends up removing all the multiowners/sublords. Players start complaining again when they realize how few medium/large plots are freed up.

Currently 2100 mediums/900 larges per server - when the average NA server has 20k or more active characters.

There will be no more complaints after #5 right?

[Shibi]

Still it is stupid that a single hardcore players buys up plots just for that reason,

And yet, in the wards where mine are, there are mostly empty plots. I mean, it's so easy to get a FC up on Materia, you can have a ward to yourself and now even transfer the loot back to NA or EU when you want to.

[Jojoya]

I can't really post proof without risking an account ban but this isn't true either. Having full submarines on a resell shoots the price up ridiculously compared to a barebones house. People will raise houses with maxed subs and then sell them for gil cap depending on the plot they're attached to (LB 41 for example). It's really not weird for multi-owners in the sub business to also sell off some of their houses when they want to drop accounts either to recoup their investment. You could probably go onto any of the black market discords rn and find a sub owner selling their houses lol.

Are players actually buying them at gil cap, or is that just the price being listed?

Because if they're buying them at gil cap, they need to take basic math classes again and congrats to the seller who found a real sucker.

As nice as Fight Club is, it's not THAT profitable from a single workshop. The loot isn't consistent enough. Maybe my RNG is bad but even if one of my better than normal weeks was happening every week it would take me 285 weeks (over 5 years) to reach gil cap off a single workshop running Fight Club on all 4 subs. Granted that the house itself is theoretically important to the buyer but dang that's some stupid at work.

I have no doubt the occasional house with maxed workshop gets sold but it's far more likely to be a random player that inherited a FC house when the rest of the FC stopped playing than a sublord. As bad as the subfarm situation has gotten, it's easy to forget that other types of players also have FC houses and also may have reasons to sell them. And that some of those reasons to sell are acceptable to SE. Their restrictions are only you cannot purchase with intent to resell and you can only sell for gil, not real money or other items that may have a real money value.

Took me a year to get 2 submarines to the level where I can farm some money, just waiting on the third. Considering the amount of money and time I put in I think it's absolutely fair. Just knock those scrubs who own multiple plots out of all but 1 of their houses and we're good to go. 1 house per account is more than enough.

More effective would be to remove workshops from housing and place them elsewhere, then give every player one workshop per account (that all characters on the account can access). Would that hurt FCs that rely on workshops for funding events? Sadly, yes if their members aren't willing to donate gil or items. But Company credits are very underutilized compared to the number an active FC will generate. SE needs to be creating more uses for company credits beyond buying fuel and FC actions.

"Let them keep ruining the game or else they will get angry and ruin it even more"
Might as well also let the limsa sewer bots out too, they cheat as much as the the "sublords" I didn't choose that name btw, I prefer to call them"suspiciously adjacent to RMT person"

While I think your heart is in the right place, you're trying to simplify the housing problem as having a single source when it's a lot more complex and the source you picked generally doesn't work the way you seem to think.

If you want to simplify the housing problem, it is:

"SE choose poorly (when they created their housing design)".

The art aesthetic of the game works in housing beautifully. The appearance (mostly, burn those Paissa and effigies) can be magnificent in the hands of some of the skilled housing designers in the player base.

The systems underneath the aesthetic just suck. Some nice concepts, but no allowances were made for for how players actually play MMORPGs.

Nerf submarines salvage = fix housing

Remove workshops from housing = housing in a slightly better but still bad position due to size distribution since the wards are now flooded with smalls while players are trying to get mediums and larges..

Seriously, nerfing salvage is not going to have the effect you think.

My absolute best salvage return from a single voyage was 890k. I've hit over 500k on voyages on 2 other occasions over about 18 months of having subs suitable for Fight Club.

I've lost count of the number of trips where I got 0 Salvage back but it's at least 2 dozen (and I'm only running a single workshop with Fight Club). Seriously. All I got back were Gold Ingots, Platinum Ingots, Rubies, Diamonds, Emeralds and similar, the stuff that sells for under 20 gil on the MB because the MB has become so flooded with those items coming back from Fight Club.

Most of my voyages come back with 145-220k in Salvage. Keep in mind that those voyages take just over 2 days each. It's not daily.

Math time, and I'll assume absolute efficiency on sending subs back out within minutes of their return.

30 days in a month/2 day voyage time is 15 voyages a month.

15 voyages earning 220k gil from Salvage each trip is 3.3 million gil per month per sub.

3.3 million gil times 4 subs is 13.2 million gil per workshop per month. Compare that to the 25-30 million a day I make crafting and selling end game gear as a new raid gets released. I'm not even that hardcore of a seller of endgame gear. I don't camp my retainers all day long like the hardcore sellers do.

In order to make 5 billion gil a month, I would need 379 workshops.

No one is running 379 workshops. They don't have the time.

This is not directed at you but at the players who would rather address the symptoms;house hoarders/sublords/RMTers etc than the root cause.

Sometimes it feels like as players we have just given up on holding SE accountable for a flawed system and getting SE to fix it at the fundamental level.

Guess we can keep doing these housing arguments back and forth with the next set of housing woe scapegoats once submarines are nerfed.

That's because human beings are obsessed with blame.

It's far easier to point fingers at others and blame them than to step up to fix the actual problem.

(current us political parties in a nutshell)

I would happily step up to fix the housing problem if I could. I can't. It's not within my power.

We have to rely on SE to do it. They are the ones with that power.