After 1 (arguably 2) expansions what is square trying to achieve with WAR (and PLD)?

[Aravell]

You don't understand why WAR absolutely has to keep something we've had since 2.0 with Bloodbath? How about because we don't want to lose any more tank identity?

You are attributing WAR's identity to a cross-class skill, that would be like saying PLD's identity is out of combat Raise and being able to cast Stoneskin.

WAR's identity is self-healing, which they still have a lot of without an ability that makes them immortal for 4 GCDs in big pulls.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

You are attributing WAR's identity to a cross-class skill, that would be like saying PLD's identity is out of combat Raise and being able to cast Stoneskin.

WAR's identity is self-healing, which they still have a lot of without an ability that makes them immortal for 4 GCDs in big pulls.

I mean, I agree with you there but Bloodbath *was* a WAR skill from 2.0 to 3.58... so that isn't exactly the equivalent of what you described with Paladin.

A proper comparison would be PLD's Awareness and Convalescence from 2.0 to 4.58, of which the former got axed 5.0+ and the latter... became a trait Upgrade of WAR's Thrill of Battle.

sips choco milk in WAR getting various tank specific stuff to their kit (PLD Conva -> Thrill trait, PLD Iron Will -> Inner Release, DRK Reprisal -> omni action of which WAR gained, PLD Veil -> made better for ages with Shake it Off)

[Aravell]

I mean, I agree with you there but Bloodbath *was* a WAR skill from 2.0 to 3.58... so that isn't exactly the equivalent of what you described with Paladin.

A proper comparison would be PLD's Awareness and Convalescence from 2.0 to 4.58, of which the former got axed 5.0+ and the latter... became a trait Upgrade of WAR's Thrill of Battle.

sips choco milk in WAR getting various tank specific stuff to their kit (PLD Conva -> Thrill trait, PLD Iron Will -> Inner Release, DRK Reprisal -> omni action of which WAR gained, PLD Veil -> made better for ages with Shake it Off)

WAR really does just rip their entire identity out of PLD. Convalescense becoming a Thrill trait while PLD lost theirs. WAR getting 2 knockback immunities in their kit, an advantage that PLD used to have. WAR takes Divine Veil and got a heal on it, then when Divine Veil got a heal attached to it too, Shake it Off got a regen tacked on for literally no reason. Also healing allies used to be PLD's thing back in HW when they took WAR into the direction of the big damage tank, then they decided that WAR should also be able to heal allies and do it for no resource/damage cost and just gave them Nascent Flash.

It's stupid how many advantages WAR took from PLD. I actually wouldn't be surprised if WAR gets Passage of Arms (but better) in DT, or an actual functional Cover.

[rawker]

WAR really does just rip their entire identity out of PLD. Convalescense becoming a Thrill trait while PLD lost theirs. WAR getting 2 knockback immunities in their kit, an advantage that PLD used to have. WAR takes Divine Veil and got a heal on it, then when Divine Veil got a heal attached to it too, Shake it Off got a regen tacked on for literally no reason. Also healing allies used to be PLD's thing back in HW when they took WAR into the direction of the big damage tank, then they decided that WAR should also be able to heal allies and do it for no resource/damage cost and just gave them Nascent Flash.

It's stupid how many advantages WAR took from PLD. I actually wouldn't be surprised if WAR gets Passage of Arms (but better) in DT, or an actual functional Cover.

Thank you. This has always been my gripe since HW. WAR just takes everything away from PLD.

[GoatOfWar]

Thank you. This has always been my gripe since HW. WAR just takes everything away from PLD.

Warrior cannibalises everything the other tanks do without any of the downsides, because they're the loudest tank players.
It became the leech tank when Drk was supposed to do that. It took our damage when it was all we had.
It got every short tank cooldown gigabuffed except Dark knight's because that used to be it's thing, it got Aurora as a bonus effect on Equillibrium, it got a longer duration on Holmgang when that was it's only downside.
War got Paladin's rampart streamlined, it got Dark knight's Reprisal and low blow streamlined.. It even got a Shake it off buff to make sure it also got the strongest partywide mitigation in every given situation.

Warrior players want War to be the best at everything. And now that they are, they're genuinely convinced the game is super balanced. I loathe the job. We might as wel not have any tanks besides War rn, because none of them do anything better.
And when confronted with the problems they caused, they will deflect and say that the other tanks need a rework.. Which they then get, and the cycle repeats.
Other tank does something better>Wars get mad>It gets streamlined>gib rework!

[Deceptus]

Shake it Off got a regen tacked on for literally no reason.

AoE Bleeds. SIO got the Regen to help the healers with Bleeds (not like they needed it with enough gear though)

[Supersnow845]

AoE Bleeds. SIO got the Regen to help the healers with Bleeds (not like they needed it with enough gear though)

That was always the advantage of the magical mitigations, they affected bleedwides and multi hit raid wides

As with everything with WAR what’s the point of having distinct advantages and disadvantages if you just end up buffing WAR till it has no disadvantages

Then next tier we got harrowing hell which HOL/DM don’t even affect while SIO basically became 2 mitigations in one

[Supersnow845]

I think the point should be that WAR’s are fine to have their mitigation and their version of tanks mild self heals to be “lifesteal” based

What isn’t okay that they get a massive potency raid wide heal and can functionally bene one person per 25 seconds while also being immortal in cleave content

[Oizen]

I'm just tired of the favoritism honestly. WAR is being designed in a way where it feels like the developers are telling me I have to play it, because it is the best at literally everything under the sun, and is intentionally being pushed that way, and playing what I want to play is throwing.

WAR has the strongest invuln, so strong that it warps savage fights to basically downgrade the 2nd tank to a secondary DPS.
WAR has the strongest short mit, which is even stronger when applied to another target, effectively allowing you to double the amount of healing you're outputting for no real cost to yourself.
WAR has the strongest singular Raidwide mit, previously the balance behind it was DRK and GNB have literal clone skills of each other that only mit damage, with the upside of being timed mitigation rather than a shield, then they decide they should effectively nullify that advantage by giving Shake it off a Regen, which functionally does the same thing, on all damage types. And thats not even going into its ability to boost that shield further.
All the other tanks get a clone skill that is 30% mit, WAR gets bonus reflect damage on theirs


Dark Knight and Paladin cant benefit from skill speed due to being mixed attackers? Tough. GNB struggling to keep all of its buttons inline due to its endwalker additions? Who cares.
WAR isn't getting damage buffs on its Inner Release free crit attacks from crit buffs? HOLD THE FUCKING PHONE WE GOTTA REDO HOW THAT ENTIRE SYSTEM WORKS.

PLD falls so far behind that we have to rework it for being inherently incompatible with EW's gameplay? Eughhh fine but we better give WAR some more attention and make sure SIO remains superior to veil because it has to be.

Like I'm fine with the job having advantages, but it can't EVERY advantage, and if it is EVERY advantage, it shouldn't also be topping the DPS charts.
And if you are going to make a mandatory Omni-job of everything, can it at least be more fun and engaging to play rather than Fell Cleave & Fell Cleave Accessories?

[Mosha]

Dark Knight and Paladin cant benefit from skill speed due to being mixed attackers?

Yeah, they do...well as much as WAR and GNB do. e.g getting a GCD you feel comfortable with.