After 1 (arguably 2) expansions what is square trying to achieve with WAR (and PLD)?

[Mosha]

Dark Knight and Paladin cant benefit from skill speed due to being mixed attackers?

Yeah, they do...well as much as WAR and GNB do. e.g getting a GCD you feel comfortable with.

[Oizen]

Yeah, they do...well as much as WAR and GNB do. e.g getting a GCD you feel comfortable with.

Not quite. Dark Knight and PLD both have both Weapon Skills, which scale off of Skill speed, and Spells, which scale off of spell speed.
It effectively means melding speed will only affect some of your skills, not all of them.

Its not the biggest deal, but if something like this affected WAR I guarantee you we'd be having an Emergency Maitenance and a Developer apology letter about it

[Mosha]

Not quite. Dark Knight and PLD both have both Weapon Skills, which scale off of Skill speed, and Spells, which scale off of spell speed.
It effectively means melding speed will only affect some of your skills, not all of them.

Right, but tanks don't use speed builds because you would just drift outside of the 2mins.

[OdinelStarrei]

Right, but tanks don't use speed builds because you would just drift outside of the 2mins.

DRK's can't drift out of 2mins, everything damage based on the job is in 30sec divisible oGCD, GCD damage is a pittance in comparison, and Delirium Bloodspillers can be held for multiple GCDs before dumping.

SkS DRK is something that isn't viable because of slow mana economy and crit dominance, not 2 min drift, that stuff is automatic.

[Wolwosh]

I can't bring myself to play War anymore. I find it so dull now and I've been enjoying it since since ARR.
They removed all complexity from it and I don't see why people enjoy it so much. You can hardly die in 90 dungeons, like you really have to not CD at all.
You get hit? Just heal yourself to full no healer needed.
Though I still see a lot of Warriors at 90 that are hard to heal xD

[Mosha]

DRK's can't drift out of 2mins, everything damage based on the job is in 30sec divisible oGCD, GCD damage is a pittance in comparison, and Delirium Bloodspillers can be held for multiple GCDs before dumping.

SkS DRK is something that isn't viable because of slow mana economy and crit dominance, not 2 min drift, that stuff is automatic.

Yeah, that was my bad forgot about Dark for a moment but still Skill speed is an odd thing to get mad about in the context of WAR being OP.

[Absurdity]

Honestly at this point going into a expert dungeon and the tank isnt a WAR then they are pretty much trolling IMO.

Not really. WAR might be utterly braindead but let's not pretend the other tanks are having a "hard time" with dungeons, lmao.
Healers are sitting on so many oGCDs that even bringing the tank with the least amount of self-sustain is no issue, your healer just actually gets to use their toolkit a bit instead of spamming AoE damage or AFKing.

Provided the tank can do the bare minimum of the job, pressing mitigation cooldowns.

[Supersnow845]

However skill speed being another victim of “the only ideas we ever have for new buttons is big new oGCD’s and big buffs that make it even more punishing to drift anything” is a problem that warrants discussing especially since WAR contributed to making crit even stronger because it now buffs damage of auto crits

There is really only 5 jobs stacking massive speed on is really viable (BLM and the 5 healers all because they are all exempt from large CD’s you can drift (WHM is exempt even though it has misery because misery builds off your healing gauge)) and all 5 still benefit from cut more anyway

[Absurdity]

However skill speed being another victim of “the only ideas we ever have for new buttons is big new oGCD’s and big buffs that make it even more punishing to drift anything” is a problem that warrants discussing especially since WAR contributed to making crit even stronger because it now buffs damage of auto crits

There is really only 5 jobs stacking massive speed on is really viable (BLM and the 5 healers all because they are all exempt from large CD’s you can drift (WHM is exempt even though it has misery because misery builds off your healing gauge)) and all 5 still benefit from cut more anyway

It will never be viable as long as they keep party buffs the way they are. When drifting is no longer the death of your DPS we might see a resurgence of skill/spell speed, but certainly not while you have the most inflexible burst windows imaginable and cooldown timings specifically designed around it.

[OdinelStarrei]

Yeah, that was my bad forgot about Dark for a moment but still Skill speed is an odd thing to get mad about in the context of WAR being OP.

It's not really that Skill Speed directly correlates to WAR specifically being OP, it's just yet another thing/option that WAR has that other jobs do not in the overall design. Another feather in the cap, so to speak, or how WAR gets to sidestep certain design failures for no understandable reason. When WAR was negatively affected by Critical Hit buffing on major skills, that was fixed, and that was something that wasn't even noticeable to people, because things like Direct Hit VS things like lack of Crit scaling with Chain Strat are just not explained by the game.

Meanwhile you have GNB, a job that straight up doesn't function rotationally at a high SkS, something you may not be able to avoid depending on SkS itemization especially if you don't raid, and DRK/PLD, jobs that have entire GCD combos that Skill Speed is effectively a dead stat on, both are something that WAR never has to deal with.

It's like, the principle of it. It's like when Shake It Off got the buff for the shield, which was good, but later got the buff for an instant heal AND a regen. On top of BW. I'm not saying there's conspiracy against other tanks, but I am saying that obviously someone is putting a lot more effort into WAR design than that of any other tank.

WAR literally warps certain parts of the game around it, and that's ridiculous.