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  1. #1
    Player
    Valence's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    5,092
    Character
    Sunie Dakwhil
    World
    Twintania
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey_R View Post
    You need to take into account that not everyone wants RNG in their jobs. Some like the fact they can plan everything out, some like the RNG nature, this is why there should be a spectrum of jobs that fill all those niches of playstyle. The same is true for positionals, not everyone likes a positional heavy job, but that doesn't mean one shouldn't exist (RIP Monk).
    I never stated the opposite.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey_R View Post
    I've already mentioned RNG on DRG combos for Fang and Claw/Wheeling Thrust, so I'll talk about the others.

    Thundercloud. Now, I'm not a BLM main by any stretch of the imagination, but I imagine, if everything lines up and you get your Thundercloud proc/Fire 3 procs when you want, it feels good, but, what if you don't get them. You are relying on them for movement, and they just won't proc. That is going to feel bad and I'm pretty sure that's why Sharpcast is as it is now, for more leeway. Yes, Swift/Triplecast exist, no you cannot rely on having them available when you need them.
    If you get a sharpcast for every thunder cast and more like you do today, is it still RNG? I don't think it is, it's just fake at best. The whole deal has always been about adjusting to it, but now you barely do that at all. You pop sharpcast every time and get a free proc to use until the next. Very rng, very adjustment, much wow. If anything sharpcast thundercloud has turned into a cumbersome non standard lines fodder.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey_R View Post
    AoE Dots on Bard, the only reason it felt good was because it proced a lot, I don't see you mentioning single target, which is a dead giveaway.
    The reason it feels better on AoE than single target is because you can feel the damage it does, unlike on the latter which is just carpal tunnel. Does it still feel good today? A bit more than Bloodletter spamm, for the aforementioned reason. Does it actually feel super rewarding? No, because it's not tied anymore to dot prepositioning, rng variations, and skill. Now you pop the song and you just spamm it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey_R View Post
    Dark Knight, technically, you didn't need Dark Dance, to activate Reprisal and reset Low Blow, Dark Dance just increased the chances of it happening.
    Yes, and it was a nice skill, a thousand times more interesting than "press a button and get x% mitigation, that's it". Not only do you mitigate and do your job as tank, but on top of it you get rewarded for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey_R View Post
    Having a boss randomly buster you without warning is bad design, you will need some sort of tell that it is going to happen
    Yes and no, it depends of the buster. Something that will delete you? Sure. ARR was full of smaller hard hitting attacks, boss crits, etc, that introduced a lot of chaos.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey_R View Post
    assuming there is no guarantee that the boss is going to use a certain number of these busters, your performance in combat is entirely dependant on what the boss does and everything is out of your hands.
    It's no different than any proc job. Provide a high enough sample, on small enough potencies (not nukes), and you're good to go.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey_R View Post
    I also know you liked the old MCH combos with the ammo system, of which, the ammo is there to specifically negate the RNG.
    The ammo is exactly like dark dance. It doesn't make your rotation deterministic. It even adds complexity to the burst. I don't understand what you're trying to prove with the ammo example?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey_R View Post
    There is something very common in all of these points, and that is the fact you have some sort of control over the RNG, whether it is DoTing more enemies for more proc chances, increasing the chance via Dark Dance, getting those guaranteed combos via ammo and, I suspect, having Flourish on Dancer helps in the burst phase as you can guarantee you have the required procs available, or the mass accumulation of Chakra on Monk during Brotherhood etc.

    The RNG feels good when it works for us, when it activates, however, you also have to take into consideration when it doesn't. Those periods of time where you don't have something to help manipulate the RNG in your favour. Those times your 12 on Dancer never procs, or you never get a feather. Those times you want just that one Repertoire proc for a full power Pitch Perfect just before you go into Mage's Ballard, never getting the Verfire/Verstone procs on RDM, never generating a chakra stack between Bootshines on Monk etc. We have all had those bad patches, but they are the things that stick out more rather than the times it benefits us.
    Control over the toolkit and bringing player agency is great. I'll never say the opposite.

    Can't say I agree with your examples though. Feeling like shit about things like that sounds to me like you just don't enjoy rng and proc jobs period. You tell me that I am looking too much from one side, but it sounds like you're not doing better there tbh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey_R View Post
    And, to comment on guaranteed procs in burst windows, if you were to take them, it would feel even worse. As you have already mentioned, not getting Refulgent Arrow back in SB in the burst felt really bad and the same can be said for other cases as well.
    That's because it was (and still is) your main nuke/attack. It would be like making midare a proc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey_R View Post
    Again, to reiterate, I have no issue with jobs being RNG based but to claim RNG is the thing every job needs so that encounters can feel fun again, you are mistaken.
    Again and i'm sorry but this is also a gigantic strawman.




    Quote Originally Posted by Jeycht View Post
    I can already see a huge difference in my opener if I crit or not and that can be enough to wipe on dps check if the team is unlucky and can't compensate even with a lb (it's rare but that often happened in p8s when we tried week1 or on p1 TOP since we don't always use "meta comp")
    If you crit yes. Did you even read what I wrote above on crit variance vs proc variance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeycht View Post
    I'm asking you how you want it to be to understand what you mean by an exemple of "rotation" or something but you don't provide any.
    Atleast a game exemple.
    I have no idea what you're asking or referring to?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeycht View Post
    If I want a MH like fights I play MH.
    Ah yes, the "if you dont like something, just quit the game" argument. Nice.
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    Last edited by Valence; 04-07-2024 at 06:58 AM.