Bring positive RNG

[Valence]

Everywhere. The game is scripted and repeats on a loop. Everything people do is doing the exact same dance again and again and again. Nothing changes, content gets old faster, and the difficulty in challenging content has to be ten times more punishing to ensure people do not do a single mistake else they get body checked. I have never trained to be a professional ballet dancer, but it sure does feel like I'm using a simulator for it, and in casual content, it's just pushing squares into squares and triangles into triangles, and there is not even a single variation in which order. RNG in encounter design and instance design would bring back more pause and breaks, and potentially encourage more multiplayer interaction beyond "hello / thanks for the party".

That was for encounters.

Now then for jobs: I said "positive". What's positive? RNG that does reward and doesn't frustrate. In opposition, negative RNG would be RNG that only brings frustration when not yielded the expected result.

Positive examples: simple skill procs, rng Fang & Claw and Wheeling Thrust proc order, Thundercloud (before a legion of sharpcast), AoE dots generating procs on old bard, Dark Dance on HW DRK, randomly induced busters and the likes that can be actively countered by defensives yielding beneficial procs (TBN style, just without the break requirement), etc.
Negative examples: minor arcana (damage vs heal), quick synthesis, old ARR/HW accuracy, etc.

I'm sure there is tons more to talk about here, and I know I'm probably asking for a total paradigm shift, but that's my tastes and my feedback.

[ZiraZ]

rng Fang & Claw and Wheeling Thrust proc order

jesus christ

[Aco505]

jesus christ

Seconded. Nah.

[DiaDeem]

[Jojoya]

Things get boring when results are always guaranteed to be "good for you" and there is no risk.

The game doesn't really go that deep into what you're calling negative RNG. Most failure situations come from a player not preparing properly instead of random chance.

[Shibi]

The game doesn't really go that deep into what you're calling negative RNG.

As a heavy map runner, Atrophied Atamos on the Gazelleskin Timeworn map roulette says a cheaty cheaty cheaty cheaty cheaty 'hi' to you before ejecting you from the instance after clicking over three times.

Well, granted, that's more blatant cheating, than negative RNG.

[LilimoLimomo]

I feel like I overall understand where you're coming from. Doing a static rotation can feel stale, especially in a game where you are so seldom needing to change your rotation in any meaningful way in response to what happens during encounters.

That said, I feel like we should be very careful where we inject RNG into player's kits. For example, does randomizing whether I should press 1-2-3-4-5 versus 1-2-3-5-4 actually result in a more enjoyable play experience? Or does it simply add unrewarding busywork? Not everyone is going to agree. And I'll posit that the reason that not everyone is going to agree is because at a fundamental level, this interaction itself isn't innately fun; rather, it simply feels like a breath of fresh air to players who are so stifled by doing the same static rotation for years that even the most minor step away from that tastes like a feast. We can do better by focusing on what would be more universally enjoyable.

Personally, I hold up Thunder procs as one of the best uses of RNG, but I think it's so important to understand the context it exists in, because that's the reason it works so well! BLM is constantly juggling multiple timers to keep their plates spinning, and to do this they need to make sure they cast certain spells within certain windows. Cast too late and your plate falls on the floor, cast too early and you're losing some of your potential damage output. Because of this, BLM needs to actually consider and react to enemy behavior when determining what they will cast and when, because their cast times means they can't just change tactics on a dime without making sacrifices.

And it's within all this layered management and potential for failure that Thunder procs shine. Because you want to cast them ASAP, both because it feels good to press the juicy damage button and because the sooner you press it the sooner you can get another proc for even more damage. But these procs also require that you change your plan of how and when you're going to spend your resources in the limited time before your plates need another spin, which can be a challenge. So opting in to press this juicy button comes with a cost that you may not always be able to pay, and sometimes you may drop a plate you took a risk that didn't pay off.

I initially started writing this to hold up how Thunder does RNG right, and how that implementation probably has something good to learn that we could apply to other classes when using RNG. But in writing this, I think I've come to a different conclusion. Because RNG in and of itself doesn't make Thunder fun; rather, it's the potential for failure that makes RNG fun. If BLM couldn't drop those plates, then Thunder would just be a spell that periodically inserted itself into your rotation...and that's not very compelling. But since BLM can drop their plates, Thunder allows them to take a risk that will give them more damage if they succeed...with the potential outcome that the BLM bites off more than they can chew and all those plates come tumbling down.

So my updated response is this: we shouldn't be adding RNG to classes, we should be adding opportunities for failure into rotations in the form of risk/reward mechanics. Maybe those will have RNG, but maybe they won't. I'd hazard there are a lot of different ways to do that.

Anyway, food for thought! ^^

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

we shouldn't be adding RNG to classes, we should be adding opportunities for failure into rotations in the form of risk/reward mechanics. Maybe those will have RNG, but maybe they won't. I'd hazard there are a lot of different ways to do that.

I do get it, and I do feel like that's a nice idea.

However, this does not cause any mess because BLM is already a very niche job, being one of the hardest hitting and one of the most mechanically demanding (as in "you need to plan the fight much more than say bards or machinists since you can't move most of the time"). Thunder III does account for 10% of the overall total DPS, so good procs are rewarded, but the BLM merely syncs with the rest of the party, it doesn't have a CD that boosts its damage for the next 10s. That's why it's no issue. Otherwise, BLMs would rather have two procs during this burst than three outside of it.
If they were to have such a CD, obnoxious high-end players (not all of them are) would complain that the game is too RNG-heavy, and that's why they don't get rank 1 or whatever.

I've read countless discussions on people that want Crit and DH flattened into raw damage to mitigate the effects of RNG, for that very reason. And even abolishing parsers would not help : it's the same as DNC and old MCH really, when procs are part of a rotation, you're not happy when you get procs, you're bitter when you don't. Because there's no good or bad RNG, there's only good or bad minset. I'm all out for more RNG, I had much more fun with MCH back then, despite being really unlucky in general, but most people would simply not appreciate it, sadly.

Edit : I didn't see Saraide post at the time of writing this, but that's exactly what I meant : it's a mindset. And that's no personal attack, some people like RNG, some don't. I have issue with the ones that complains about the RNG effects on parses tho.

[DrWho2010]

this isn't the kind of game where failure is rewarded tho.

[Saraide]

Stuff like redmage's procs make me feel absolutely nothing. Dancer becomes a lot less fun if you dont get feathers left and right.