Astrologian: what is your understanding about it?

[Raikai]

Honestly, what draws (no pun intended lol!) me most to AST are aesthetics and how good their AF sets and astrolabes look.

The job is a nightmare to optimize for me though simply because my latency (even with VPN) won't allow a comfy double weaving. It's always a mess.

I think this might be a very divisive topic among the players who enjoy the hectic AST burst playstyle, but I hope the necessity of double weaving is somehow eliminated in Dawntrail. Or at least set in a high-end optimization similar to how BLM's alternative lines are. An AST not double weaving has their damage contribution highly compromised, granted the card receivers are doing their stuff right, and isn't exactly fair that a player with a higher than average ping (130ms) is excluded from a job playing at their skill ceiling, or at least close to that.

Other than that, I really want 3 things with the rework:

- Minor Arcana imploded and replaced with something else. Anything. Lords is never there when you need for the burst window. Lady is never there when you actually need that extra ogcd during prog.
- Astrodyne needs to have its buffs changed to Damage>Speed>Crit to be less frustrating. Feels like card drawing already provide enough MP.
- Cards pairs changed to be optimally usable on [Tanks (dmg+mit) / Healers (dmg+extra healing) / DPSsers (dmg+crit)] instead of trios to Melee/Ranged. I just think it would feel more dynamic to allow every role a chance to get a card boost.

Now, for actually new stuff through DT levels, maybe more time magic themed actions with timed stuff. But add a clock to the gauge if you do so, having to check on a buff/debuff is quite cumbersome.

Also, I've been doing the job quests with New Game + and in the initial quests, Leveva implies that cards could be used to divine either the good or bad fortunes. I wonder if we could have a way to use some of the deck against our enemies. Maybe that's a better idea for a Minor Arcana rework? After all, according to the Encylopaedia, the minor arcana consists of several numbered suites, not just Lord and Lady.

[Allegor]

Cards pairs changed to be optimally usable on [Tanks (dmg+mit) / Healers (dmg+extra healing) / DPSsers (dmg+crit)] instead of trios to Melee/Ranged. I just think it would feel more dynamic to allow every role a chance to get a card boost.

This is actually a really good point I never really realized until now. With the old cards, I could give Spire to WARs so they have fun cleaving, and obviously Bole for extra mits to any tank, and Ewer to healers/casters who were running low or recently raised, basically everyone had use for any card, situational as they might be .... but now that I realize, every single card always goes to the dps. Last time I gave a card to a tank was by accident cuz the server tic didn't realize I had switched targets on time lol

Also, I personally despise the melee/ranged division. Get rid of it, I don't care what you replace it with, just burn it. Burn it

[Sylvain]

This is actually a really good point I never really realized until now. With the old cards, I could give Spire to WARs so they have fun cleaving, and obviously Bole for extra mits to any tank, and Ewer to healers/casters who were running low or recently raised, basically everyone had use for any card, situational as they might be .... but now that I realize, every single card always goes to the dps. Last time I gave a card to a tank was by accident cuz the server tic didn't realize I had switched targets on time lol

Also, I personally despise the melee/ranged division. Get rid of it, I don't care what you replace it with, just burn it. Burn it

The issue stays the same.
Let say we take this system, where it would always be "Dmg + X", X being mitigation for tanks, extra healing for healer and crit for DPS.

What would the end result be? t... making it useless.



If you card a tank, he gets X% increased damage and a useless mitigation. Why is it useless? Because he has to survive whatever would be coming without that card otherwise he'd die 66% of the time. (assuming no reroll)
If you card a healer, we get X% increased damage and extra heal which, like for the tank, is useless because you have to be able to heal whatever is coming without it otherwise you'd wipe 66% of the time.
In other words, we're back to the issue of the lord/lady. You can't base your healing off something RNG, therefor whenever it's popping up, you don't need it.

Finally, you get the DPS getting X% increased dmg and crit...

X% on DPS is stronger than X% on tank (spare DRK) which is stronger than X% on Healer.

Among all 3 cards, only the X% dps increase is impactful (and crit on dps as it's just extra dps), because you never take into consideration those bonuses.

The card system, provided it stays RNG, does not work in FF14 raiding environnement in its current iteration/philosophie.
Because no matter what buff the cards offer, you cannot setup mitigation and healing of random elements.

Unless they make it so that the extra mitigation and healing allows for extra DPS making them worthwhile while not essential.

For instance, let say a boss does very hard hitting AA and you spent a significant portion of the fight throwing Aspected Benefit, you'd get a tanking card, reducing damage taken from AA by 20% for 30s.
That mitigation allows you to shoot an extra or two malefic, making it useful while not mandatory.

Applying the same logic for healing, where damage would be much more consistent, forcing us to use Aspected Helios often, if a healing card allows us to throw 1 or 2 extra malefic, then it is fine because your buff allowed you to heal less often and thus dps more.

In these case, you'd have all 3 cards granting a palpable bonus which is at the same time not essential yet equivalent.

But since in its current iteration, you heal 99% of all damage with ogcd, that tank don't require more than general AoE + some ogcd to survive, any extra healing or mitigation is useless because it will not make a difference.
If I give you 10% extra healing potency for 15s, you will still heal the exact same amount of time as if you didn't have it in most scenarios.
If you reduce a tank damage taken by 10-20% for 15s, you would still heal him the same.

So if the supportive aspect of the card is useless, then only the dps component remain... and again... DPS wins.

The only way to make cards flavorfull and unique would be remove the RNG component.

If every minute I get to draw my 6 cards, each having a unique effect, and I get to use all 6 within that minute once, then I can plan around, so you can put any fun and engaging effect on them.

But if cards bring any form of supportive effect in an RNG manner, you can't plan around it, so you always play as if you don't have i

As a side note, it doesn't mean I enjoy the current system.
It's bland, boring and flavorless. But at the very least it is the most balanced system as in, "every card is useful".

I hope we get something new, (not expecting much tbh), but I've thought about it for a long time, in current FF14 raiding environnement, the card system (like the old one or whatever variant you do which isn't "all cards are the same"), does not work. FF isn't a game where random ponctual utility is useful, which is exactly what cards are, random and ponctual.

[Allegor]

snip

I wasn't pointing out to that idea specifically but the realization of the fact that cards are 100% worthless for non-dps players, whereas at least with the old system anyone could benefit from them, as niche as some could be. Now I'm not saying the old cards were without flaws either, but it just felt more...diverse/fair? if that makes sense.

I guess all it boils down to is that AST's very identity goes against the game's format /shrug

[Sylvain]

I wasn't pointing out to that idea specifically but the realization of the fact that cards are 100% worthless for non-dps players, whereas at least with the old system anyone could benefit from them, as niche as some could be. Now I'm not saying the old cards were without flaws either, but it just felt more...diverse/fair? if that makes sense.

I guess all it boils down to is that AST's very identity goes against the game's format /shrug

It did feel diverse, for sure. I can't deny that.

But your last sentence encapsulate my long post, its identity goes against the current game (raiding) format...

Perhaps a semi RNG system where you get, 1 DPS card, one tanking card and one supportive card would just be the good middle ground.
Such as, you draw 3 cards, each symbole having two possibilities. And redraw makes you just move to the next card (like egi summon let say) so that you can choose which card to use with only 2 button, draw/play and redraw (or "swap")

Something like a 110s CD

Sun (DPS)
Balance : Increase Damage by 10% for 20s
Bole : Increase crit chance on your next 3 skill by 50%

Moon (defense)
Ewer : Increase party healing receive by 15% for 15s
Arrow : Reduce party damage taken by 10% for 15s

celestial (support)
Spear : Party members move faster for 10s
Spire : Targeted party member next 5 cast are instant.

Let say those are the buffs you get once every 110s. (Always starting on the DPS for comfort during opener)
You do get a DPS card no matter what, but its optimal target isn't the same every time.
You get a mitigation/healing buff, which means you can plan around both.
And you get a utility spell that can either be useless or just make a specific mechanic more comfortable. For instance, on TOP, there are quite a few places where either faster movement or instant cast would prove useful, like Pantocrator. It isn't mandatory, but there are often a few places where you're like "I definitely wouldn't mind extra comfort here".

I feel something like this would be a fair middle ground between what we currently have and what the old system was.