Astrologian: what is your understanding about it?

[Local_Custard]

I love astrologian. I unfortunately had to limit playing it because I got it to level 90 by the time I was finishing ARR on my alt (this is to give other jobs a chance at leveling and force myself to learn more about the game I previously ignored). When I made my first character I picked up white mage. While I enjoyed it, I felt I could do more. I tried Astrologian and fell in love with it. I'm not an expert, but I do like to think I have a basic understanding and a lot of room for growth.
It is my understanding this job is far from perfect.
What do you understand about current astrologian? How does it contrast from past AST?

If you were to condense this job, what is its core? What makes Astrologian tic in your opinion?

bonus question: I've found minor arcana to be underwhelming. The healing card can be nice but I rarely need it when I already have a plethora of other group heals to work with (and synastry if I am desperate to keep the tank alive). The damage card is a nice bonus- though I wish I could proc it more often. How might you tweak minor arcana?

[Supersnow845]

AST is the healers resident “never get attached to this job because they are going to rework it every single expansion”

Right now AST can be described in my mind as “APM for the sake of it”, AST’s burst window is incredibly complex, arguably the single most complex burst window in the game given its length, rigidity and the fact that it’s the only one of the 5 main cluttered burst windows (alongside DNC, GNB, DRK and NIN) where your APM goes even higher because you constantly have to target others to give them cards

Outside of that the class is…….fine, it still suffers from healers boring as sin DPS rotation and the fact healers are drowning in free heals. AST at least has a somewhat cohesive theme to its heals as they are all stellar themed and a lot of them have delayed effects (horoscope, star, exaltation macrocosmos) but it does have a lot of redundant buttons

As for comparison to old iterations AST (alongside SCH) has arguably fallen the furthest of any class compared to its old iteration, in HW and SB rather than cards just being generic damage amplifiers they provided utility buffs such as reducing damage, restoring MP or increasing haste, these buffs weren’t terribly well balanced to be fair but they provided flavour to the class, the old version also used time dilation to increase its buff lengths which was a very well designed way to play into their time mage aesthetic. Before SGE AST also had a stance system where you could make all of its heals give shields instead so it was the flex healer which a lot of people miss

If I were to condense this job AST could functionally lose every skill it’s gained above 70 (except maybe macrocosmos), the cards should be returned to a utility focus (but without one card that was damage oriented), royal road should come back and honestly minor arcana should just be deleted

For your bonus point minor arcana has always been weird, in ShB divination’s power relies on the seal system (4% for one unique seal, 5% for 2 6% for 3) but you also had a button called sleeve draw that would guarantee you a unique seal card, this was on top of redraw having 3 charges, minor arcana was used to dump off bad seal cards by buffing the individual damage (4% for wrong class 8% for correct class) of the card you use but in exchange it didn’t offer a seal. This was the best iteration of minor arcana (HW and SB minor arcana was functionally just a single target version of what we have now) but since the seals now only give astrodyne if the ShB system still existed you would just use minor arcana on every card because astrodyne is useless

[Raikai]

Honestly, what draws (no pun intended lol!) me most to AST are aesthetics and how good their AF sets and astrolabes look.

The job is a nightmare to optimize for me though simply because my latency (even with VPN) won't allow a comfy double weaving. It's always a mess.

I think this might be a very divisive topic among the players who enjoy the hectic AST burst playstyle, but I hope the necessity of double weaving is somehow eliminated in Dawntrail. Or at least set in a high-end optimization similar to how BLM's alternative lines are. An AST not double weaving has their damage contribution highly compromised, granted the card receivers are doing their stuff right, and isn't exactly fair that a player with a higher than average ping (130ms) is excluded from a job playing at their skill ceiling, or at least close to that.

Other than that, I really want 3 things with the rework:

- Minor Arcana imploded and replaced with something else. Anything. Lords is never there when you need for the burst window. Lady is never there when you actually need that extra ogcd during prog.
- Astrodyne needs to have its buffs changed to Damage>Speed>Crit to be less frustrating. Feels like card drawing already provide enough MP.
- Cards pairs changed to be optimally usable on [Tanks (dmg+mit) / Healers (dmg+extra healing) / DPSsers (dmg+crit)] instead of trios to Melee/Ranged. I just think it would feel more dynamic to allow every role a chance to get a card boost.

Now, for actually new stuff through DT levels, maybe more time magic themed actions with timed stuff. But add a clock to the gauge if you do so, having to check on a buff/debuff is quite cumbersome.

Also, I've been doing the job quests with New Game + and in the initial quests, Leveva implies that cards could be used to divine either the good or bad fortunes. I wonder if we could have a way to use some of the deck against our enemies. Maybe that's a better idea for a Minor Arcana rework? After all, according to the Encylopaedia, the minor arcana consists of several numbered suites, not just Lord and Lady.

[Supersnow845]

^in most arcana decks the “minor arcana” are functionally just the number cards divided into 4 suits (general wands, coins, swords and cups) while the major arcana are the “picture cards”

It’s strange 14 already runs off an arcana deck that doesn’t really match any actual arcana deck (though to be fair juggling 22 major arcana and 52 minor arcana would be a complete nightmare) so I think if they don’t delete it they could functionally do anything with minor arcana

[Zeastria]

I like it because it's currently the closest thing we have to a HoT-Healer in ffxiv + we can buff players,
I also love it's heal-kit, it has so many versatile uses.

( i throwed away WHM , the moment i learned AST)

I can agree that [Minor Arcana] is one of our "weakest" abilties.
I would have reworked it to 2nd card deck that focuses on AOE utility buffs.

[Astrodyne] is the reason we have such a busy opner,
reworking that will solve the issue with opner;
the fact that u need 3 uniqe signs (RNG) to get to the 5% dmg inc is just bad lol.

[Cards]: had been cool with more depth,
but not "harder" to use;
Like if cards where role-based and gave role based buffs inc.
(Healer: dmg + MP / Tank: dmg+mit / DPS: dmg+ Crit..ect)

Other then that i'm quite content with how the job(AST) workes ,
I don't find it weak or much lacking.. it just need a bit improvements on its design.

[Local_Custard]

thanks for the replies!
I'm honestly open to many changes for AST, though there is always this anxiety of the gutting happening in the wrong areas or just too major-
I look forward to DT and have hope they do their best (and hopefully hire new people for healer design however unlikely that is).
anyways- onto replying the responses

Right now AST can be described in my mind as “APM for the sake of it”, AST’s burst window is incredibly complex, arguably the single most complex burst window in the game given its length, rigidity and the fact that it’s the only one of the 5 main cluttered burst windows (alongside DNC, GNB, DRK and NIN) where your APM goes even higher because you constantly have to target others to give them cards

has to look up what APM means- and yeah I enjoy the speed. I felt that on AST I had something to keep my hands busy in idle moments- maybe it's just my brain but I tend to go crazy when I don't keep myself busy.
Can you show me what the optimal AST burst window looks like? I don't think I ever got it mastered. Also, I made a while macro set for AST just so that targeting with cards is even easier- felt great to have it

Outside of that the class is…….fine, it still suffers from healers boring as sin DPS rotation and the fact healers are drowning in free heals. AST at least has a somewhat cohesive theme to its heals as they are all stellar themed and a lot of them have delayed effects (horoscope, star, exaltation macrocosmos) but it does have a lot of redundant buttons

I would be fine if the rotation was modified- either more dps buttons or something non-damage and non-heal to do to expand on what AST already has. What kind of buffs do you feel are underutilized that would make sense for AST to have?

As for comparison to old iterations AST (alongside SCH) has arguably fallen the furthest of any class compared to its old iteration, in HW and SB rather than cards just being generic damage amplifiers they provided utility buffs such as reducing damage, restoring MP or increasing haste, these buffs weren’t terribly well balanced to be fair but they provided flavour to the class, the old version also used time dilation to increase its buff lengths which was a very well designed way to play into their time mage aesthetic. Before SGE AST also had a stance system where you could make all of its heals give shields instead so it was the flex healer which a lot of people miss

I saw a video with time dilation! I would have loved to have this spell. Do you feel the stance change would fit the current game design?

If I were to condense this job AST could functionally lose every skill it’s gained above 70 (except maybe macrocosmos), the cards should be returned to a utility focus (but without one card that was damage oriented), royal road should come back and honestly minor arcana should just be deleted

I wouldn't miss minor arcana. I would be curious how the skill set change would play into level 90+ content if this were to happen.

For your bonus point minor arcana has always been weird, in ShB divination’s power relies on the seal system (4% for one unique seal, 5% for 2 6% for 3) but you also had a button called sleeve draw that would guarantee you a unique seal card, this was on top of redraw having 3 charges, minor arcana was used to dump off bad seal cards by buffing the individual damage (4% for wrong class 8% for correct class) of the card you use but in exchange it didn’t offer a seal. This was the best iteration of minor arcana (HW and SB minor arcana was functionally just a single target version of what we have now) but since the seals now only give astrodyne if the ShB system still existed you would just use minor arcana on every card because astrodyne is useless

That's a shame. I would have loved to play with that iteration just to see how it feels. I hope Minor arcana gets a good rework. If nothing else, scrapped and replaced with something else maybe.
--

Honestly, what draws (no pun intended lol!) me most to AST are aesthetics and how good their AF sets and astrolabes look.

The aesthetic is absolutely gorgeous indeed! Honestly the most well designed part of the job.

The job is a nightmare to optimize for me though simply because my latency (even with VPN) won't allow a comfy double weaving. It's always a mess.

I think this might be a very divisive topic among the players who enjoy the hectic AST burst playstyle, but I hope the necessity of double weaving is somehow eliminated in Dawntrail. Or at least set in a high-end optimization similar to how BLM's alternative lines are. An AST not double weaving has their damage contribution highly compromised, granted the card receivers are doing their stuff right, and isn't exactly fair that a player with a higher than average ping (130ms) is excluded from a job playing at their skill ceiling, or at least close to that.

I would not mind if it was optional but existed. That way the job isn't technically dumbed down and people with high ping can still enjoy the job. Though, that may take extra steps of tweaking and rework but definitely well worth the effort. They could even throw in something extra for the players who commit to double weaving. Accessibility is very important!

Other than that, I really want 3 things with the rework:

- Minor Arcana imploded and replaced with something else. Anything. Lords is never there when you need for the burst window. Lady is never there when you actually need that extra ogcd during prog.
- Astrodyne needs to have its buffs changed to Damage>Speed>Crit to be less frustrating. Feels like card drawing already provide enough MP.
- Cards pairs changed to be optimally usable on [Tanks (dmg+mit) / Healers (dmg+extra healing) / DPSsers (dmg+crit)] instead of trios to Melee/Ranged. I just think it would feel more dynamic to allow every role a chance to get a card boost.

I wish I could hop on and play with current astrodyne just to remind myself how it plays in practice- alas my computer is physically unavailable rn. I do not remember using it while also understanding what it did- I just sort of pressed it with a very vague understanding about it. Astros gets ample MP, that I agree on. Rezzes are probably the biggest drain. We also already have an ability to regen MP besides just cards. I agree on the card change part! I would love that variety- Sometimes the tank is the only melee in party and sometimes healers are the only mages. Having the ability to place cards on a co-healer with intention of helping them would make me so happy!

Now, for actually new stuff through DT levels, maybe more time magic themed actions with timed stuff. But add a clock to the gauge if you do so, having to check on a buff/debuff is quite cumbersome.

And without making it take up too much more of the screen would be a nice balance! Not sure how the time themes would play out but I can see it as "You saw into fate and became so strong you can perceive time beyond the layman's perception" or something to that effect. Level 100 is some serious business

Also, I've been doing the job quests with New Game + and in the initial quests, Leveva implies that cards could be used to divine either the good or bad fortunes. I wonder if we could have a way to use some of the deck against our enemies. Maybe that's a better idea for a Minor Arcana rework? After all, according to the Encylopaedia, the minor arcana consists of several numbered suites, not just Lord and Lady.

I would not mind that. Maybe you draw cards for specific debuffs?
Side note- I think jobs should get a DoT spread (like bard). Maybe these debuff cards can be either single target (stronger) or spread (a bit weaker)?
--

^in most arcana decks the “minor arcana” are functionally just the number cards divided into 4 suits (general wands, coins, swords and cups) while the major arcana are the “picture cards”

It’s strange 14 already runs off an arcana deck that doesn’t really match any actual arcana deck (though to be fair juggling 22 major arcana and 52 minor arcana would be a complete nightmare) so I think if they don’t delete it they could functionally do anything with minor arcana

I think adding more cards may benefit the class. A deck that large would probably be too big of an ask and difficult to get right- Just thinking of how someone would type out what each one would do and their interaction would be a beyond massive list- a whole google doc would be needed.

I hope they make good tweaks to minor arcana to make it useful and fun to use!
--

I like it because it's currently the closest thing we have to a HoT-Healer in ffxiv + we can buff players,
I also love it's heal-kit, it has so many versatile uses.

( i throwed away WHM , the moment i learned AST)

I can agree that [Minor Arcana] is one of our "weakest" abilties.
I would have reworked it to 2nd card deck that focuses on AOE utility buffs.

[Astrodyne] is the reason we have such a busy opner,
reworking that will solve the issue with opner;
the fact that u need 3 uniqe signs (RNG) to get to the 5% dmg inc is just bad lol.

[Cards]: had been cool with more depth,
but not "harder" to use;
Like if cards where role-based and gave role based buffs inc.
(Healer: dmg + MP / Tank: dmg+mit / DPS: dmg+ Crit..ect)

Other then that i'm quite content with how the job(AST) workes ,
I don't find it weak or much lacking.. it just need a bit improvements on its design.

What's a HoT healer?
I can see a reason why you need all three for a damage buff but at the same time that can make obtaining said buff take longer and further delay maximum damage. I'm open to this suggested card version- being split by role so that there is a card for everyone. That way when I have only DoM (save for the tank) or only DoW (save for the healer) I can still apply cards properly.
I like your idea on minor arcana. Another group buff would work nicely into the skill set. If nothing else, have more use. Though, I do like the extra damage (even if it is minor damage).

[Supersnow845]

HOT means heal over time. It represents in comparison to say WHM AST has a lot of heals that apply a heal over time (collective unconscious and celestial opposition being the big ones) while WHM is more an upfront healer because mainly relies on afflatus rapture and amplifying rapture’s heal with temperance, asylum and plenary

[Raikai]

I wish I could hop on and play with current astrodyne just to remind myself how it plays in practice- alas my computer is physically unavailable rn. I do not remember using it while also understanding what it did- I just sort of pressed it with a very vague understanding about it. Astros gets ample MP, that I agree on. Rezzes are probably the biggest drain. We also already have an ability to regen MP besides just cards. I agree on the card change part! I would love that variety- Sometimes the tank is the only melee in party and sometimes healers are the only mages. Having the ability to place cards on a co-healer with intention of helping them would make me so happy!

Astrodyne gives stacking buffs depending on the amount of unique seals you have: 1=just mp / 2= mp + haste (cast time speed) / 3 = mp + haste + damage. I think the damage should be the baseline 'reward' and the following ones being just cherries on top of that cake. Just MP on Astrodyne feels even worse than a consolation prize because we don't even need that much... Especially because Dyne comes after a series of Draws, that already replenish MP.

Having the ability to place cards on a co-healer with intention of helping them would make me so happy!

I can only imagine how good it would feel to buff a WHM right before an Afflatus Misery.

[Local_Custard]

HOT means heal over time. It represents in comparison to say WHM AST has a lot of heals that apply a heal over time (collective unconscious and celestial opposition being the big ones) while WHM is more an upfront healer because mainly relies on afflatus rapture and amplifying rapture’s heal with temperance, asylum and plenary

Ah thanks! Lots of little acronyms that this game has is easy for me to forget. I enjoy HoT a lot because once applied, the health bar tics back up very nicely.
--

Astrodyne gives stacking buffs depending on the amount of unique seals you have: 1=just mp / 2= mp + haste (cast time speed) / 3 = mp + haste + damage. I think the damage should be the baseline 'reward' and the following ones being just cherries on top of that cake. Just MP on Astrodyne feels even worse than a consolation prize because we don't even need that much... Especially because Dyne comes after a series of Draws, that already replenish MP.


I can only imagine how good it would feel to buff a WHM right before an Afflatus Misery.

The buff being a baseline would be very nice. Though, I enjoy almost any buff, a damage up is particularly nice because my only consistent damage option (that isn't the DoT) is already weak so the damage up works as an extra incentive for more damage
--

I like AST but the last time I could consider it as my main job was 4.x. Endwalker’s AST is definitely the worst iteration I have played.

what is your favorite iteration?

The burst window is what got me (even though I have enjoyed AST for its high APM). You want to save light speed for divination, and cram three cards, two astrodynes, two lords, and earthly star in it - all of that leaves you with little weaving space to heal.

Ah. I'll likely feel this pain when I begin to work on optimizing this job- that is if I ever do. I do want to try harder content at some point.
I like to use light speed on trash because I can do damage on the go or heal the tank on the go (that is, if I can keep up).

ASTs can greatly increase group DPS by knowing how other jobs play. For example, by giving a BLM cards when they put down their ley lines. Before endwalker, there were jobs that had various different cooldowns (BLM and MNK had odd minute bursts, BRD was 80s?), nowadays you just buff jobs every minute or two minutes. That skill became simplified a little bit.

The healing kit is mostly okay, but some abilities feel very samey to me. I think AST also has good GCD heals because of their interaction with horoscope, neutral sect and synastry - well placed on a healer that loses the least bit of damage for GCD healing. I personally prefer SCH’s healing kit way more for its resource management, interactivity and access to more important healing mechanics (mitigation). I feel like pure healers are trying to find their place in 14, and in terms of healing kits, they’re almost always worse than barrier healers. Comparing WHM and AST though. AST wins in every aspect other than simplicity.

I remember trying scholar and not enjoying it too much felt odd as I was not used to it and struggle healing enough. I may one day try it again but I remember the leveling struggles. I do not think I level it beyond 40 but I'd need to check later to confirm this. (I may edit this later to respond to more points, but my brain is p slow rn)

AST is way more group dependent than other healers. You could contribute less damage compared to WHM if the rest of your group isn’t dishing out damage in your buffs. Your cohealer might also waste your heals by overhealing when your timed heals are ticking. On the other hand, it’s extremely good in coordinated groups.

I love that this job interacts with other jobs- even if it isn't always complicated or deep interactions. I have yet to learn how to co-heal efficiently, however. I have a problem where I overheal when with another healer.
Maybe one day I'll be in a well-coordinated group. I definitely want to experience that as an AST!

Unfortunately, I don’t expect DT’s rework to be good. I wouldn’t be surprised if SE slaps the typical healer “3-resource system” on AST and messes up cards in a way that polarizes AST players yet again. My hope is that AST still remains a busy and rewarding healer past 7.0.

I can understand the pessimism. I have been told it feels like talking into the void when suggesting things for healers and watching as jobs change in ways that don't necessarily benefit them. At least this job is fun- I can only hope things get better. History can repeat itself but the future can be equally unpredictable.
Well, let's say SE made a 3 resource system you may call it the three cheeses- how would you implement it for AST to work the best?

[Supersnow845]

I also know this is an AST thread but just to add to the SCH thing you said you stopped somewhere in the 40’s, level 37->45 is an absolute nightmare for SCH because it lacks near any oGCD besides whispering dawn, it doesn’t have aetherflow yet, adlo is a long cast and high MP cost and physick is worthless

I’d at least take SCH to the mid 60’s and see if your opinion changes, if not that’s totally fine, if it does that’s also good