Encounters aren't everything

[Valence]

This is another one of my personal feedbacks, and it is extremely tied to personal taste, so your mileage may vary, since ultimately this is very subjective. However, I am still sharing here what I like and what I don't in the game, and why I play, and what draws me in (or drew me in if I want to be depressed about it).

Since ShB huge simplifications to the battle system have been made, if not outright deletion of entire facets of it (aggro, resource scarcity, party synergy and resource support, target tactical positioning, actual pets, box hitboxes, role identity, etc). Nothing has really been added to make up for it since then.

Meanwhile, everything has been funneled into encounter design with a dedication bordering on obsession. Don't get me wrong, I do feel that encounters look great and all, and I do feel that the mechanics are more difficult as a result of all that simplification on the jobs side. This added to what was stated at PAX on shaking things up a bit, bringing up variations, pitfalls and surprise into a repetitive pattern, I'm happy to hear actually. If we can get out of the same formulaic design, I'm all for it! If we can, per chance, hope for more midcore content, same thing!

However, I do not play for encounters. I never really vibed well with the "playing DDR and follow a scripted choreography until you get it 100% right else you wipe". It's just not what I like. I like rng and tactical choices. I like adjusting to what happens, and that's not talking about "reading the room and try to figure out how to solve abstract geometry on the dance floor" kind of deal. I like finding the correct tools to counter what the boss or encounter is doing to me and my party. I like executing my rotation well and properly (guess why I love rng proc rotations?). I like what I consider to be the core essence of RPG elements, not that guitar hero stuff.

And you know what? I understand that the scripted guitar hero stuff has always been part of every encounter, and even moreso at savage level. I'm fine with it. I mean, I was fine with it, because there was a lot of things in the battle system and the jobs that actually kept me entertained. The game has a wide player range and tastes after all, and the reason I loved pve in this game was frankly because of the job design, and the resource scarcity based design of the battle system.

Unfortunately those days, everything is being funneled into encounter scripted mechanics that are not only getting harder, but with an over simplification of everything else, which includes exactly what I enjoyed. I'm left with only the scripted part of fights, and with more and more punishing body checks and finicky, overcomplicated geometry and debuff vomit to solve under 5s. That's not what I like.

I liked more intricate job and battle system RPG gameplay and elements, and there used to be a certain balanced there before.


Note: if the only answer is "maybe it's not the game for you anymore, go play something else", then that's fair I guess. But this is still my feedback.

[CidHeiral]

Your job is the window you view the entire game through. I can put up with a lot of design decisions I don't agree with in an MMO as long as my job is still fun. Raid encounters make up a small percentage of the game. If the encounters are complex and the jobs are boring, the game is boring the vast majority of the time.

[Aravell]

It's also worth noting that a vast portion of the game content will not benefit from these "fun and engaging encounters" because a vast majority of instanced content are balanced so anyone can clear.

This means people who want engaging jobs get both boring jobs and boring content for the majority of instanced content.

[VentVanitas]

it just seems very anti-game design to me to have job design and fight design be so utterly disconnected in the way they are now, and I don't believe Yoshida and his team will achieve their goal of making fights seem less repetitive so long as it remains that way. after all, isn't the appeal of choosing your class in an RPG being able to approach a fight or situation in a way only your job can?

it feels very misguided to only focus on encounters, you need to account for both jobs and fights. in my opinion, anyway.

[Jeeqbit]

Meanwhile, everything has been funneled into encounter design

For the most part, I'm alright with this. I've always played simple jobs most of the time. I started with Paladin, where you literally just spammed 1-2-3 (Rage of Halone). Then I played Dark Knight in Shadowbringers, where I also spammed 1-2-3 weaving everything. Now I'm playing Warrior which is like 1-2-3 occasionally 1-2-4 and Fell Cleave spam. Often I've just played healers when I don't want to think, which is spamming 1 button.

So to me, a pure focus on mechanics rather than job difficulty has always been my thing.

Don't get me wrong - I have played complicated jobs successfully. I played Dark Knight in Heavensward (and somehow navigated all that stuff). I played Monk and Dragoon in Shadowbringers. I've been playing Ninja a lot recently. These are jobs where, the encounter can be very simple with in-out mechanics, but the jobs are so distracting that you can mess up the mechanics because of tunneling on your rotation.

So I get it - it can be kinda fun to navigate all these simple mechanics with your complicated job. But from the perspective of someone who's usually played simple tanks, it's been the encounter mechanics that have excited me, personally.

That's one reason why older fights seem easy now. Jobs have become simpler, especially at lower levels, and what people discover is the mechanics were pretty simple and it was how distracting the job was that added to the difficulty.

So if the mechanics become more complicated instead, that isn't really a problem, to me personally. But I do sorta get it having played Ninja a lot lately, which is easy to mess up due to mechanics.

I do wish some of the stuff you listed was still there on jobs though:

aggro, resource scarcity, party synergy and resource support, target tactical positioning, actual pets, box hitboxes, role identity

[Raikai]

If I could choose only one: a) Simple jobs / complex mechs or b) Complex jobs / simple mechs, it would be defnitely b, because while the encounters can be interesting, their very scripted nature gives them a very limited shelf life.

This happens because once you comfortably attain your victory, the reclears become brainless and just a chore to repeat. Add in that to the limited High End content we can do in XIV and we get to where we are. Jobs are mostly not really fun and the / now cleared / encounters aren't fun either, especially after you obtain everything you need from them.

Complex job designs at least would guarantee that there's something engaging going on without limited shelf life.

[TheMightyMollusk]

I'd personally prefer simpler jobs and more complex fights. Once you get a job down, you're doing the exact same thing regardless of opponent, so they should shake up the opponents more.

[LuciferNacht]

The majority of the playerbase demonstrates daily that they cannot even handle a simple 123 rotation. The "read your tool tips" phrase is a meme for a reason. This game has fostered an acceptance for mediocracy and aggressively protects that under the guise of "harassment and bullying". (I can hear the people coming to call me elitist for even pointing this out)

I don't want the developers wasting time and money on something that only (being generous here) 30% of the player base might aspire to. It is my firm opinion that the majority of the player base don't have the capacity to play simple jobs correctly and so a more complex kit would be lost on them.

Encounters however could use more rng, have more dynamic leveling like some of the awesomeness we got in Bodja and shake up the usual wall to wall pulling we do. It could be something that players of all levels enjoy regardless of personal skill. Almost like an equalizer of sorts.

I wish we could have both, jobs with more complexity to master AND dynamic encounters, but I'll take the encounters for now.

This is my opinion though of course, I would love for the general playerbase to prove me wrong and all of a sudden be different in 7.0. (Please... pretty please...healers dps in dungeons).

[Valence]

I couldn't care less what the community supposedly sucks at or not. The community was doing perfectly fine before the changes in ShB, and we still have the exact same scarecrows people brandish all the time like horror stories to justify whatever they want to justify. They could even make everything down to one single button spamm and we would still have complaints.

Don't get me wrong - I have played complicated jobs successfully. I played Dark Knight in Heavensward (and somehow navigated all that stuff). I played Monk and Dragoon in Shadowbringers. I've been playing Ninja a lot recently. These are jobs where, the encounter can be very simple with in-out mechanics, but the jobs are so distracting that you can mess up the mechanics because of tunneling on your rotation.

So I get it - it can be kinda fun to navigate all these simple mechanics with your complicated job. But from the perspective of someone who's usually played simple tanks, it's been the encounter mechanics that have excited me, personally.

That's one reason why older fights seem easy now. Jobs have become simpler, especially at lower levels, and what people discover is the mechanics were pretty simple and it was how distracting the job was that added to the difficulty.

So if the mechanics become more complicated instead, that isn't really a problem, to me personally. But I do sorta get it having played Ninja a lot lately, which is easy to mess up due to mechanics.

I do wish some of the stuff you listed was still there on jobs though:

Yes, that's one reason current DSR or especially TOP but with Heavensward levels of job design would probably be a ludicrous nightmare. I do fully expect that if they ever want to bring back intricacies and complexity into jobs, they'd need in turn to tone down encounters again, unless they want a very elitist challenging endgame making everybody else quit raiding.

If you like a fully encounter based system, that's totally fair and your own tastes. It's just not what I like in the game. I play for the tactical aspects of job rotations, target positioning (I DO miss the crits when you were hit from behind, it added so much to tanking in dungeons...), etc. Maybe i'm just a fossil at this point.

[IDontPetLalas]

The majority of the playerbase demonstrates daily that they cannot even handle a simple 123 rotation. The "read your tool tips" phrase is a meme for a reason. This game has fostered an acceptance for mediocracy and aggressively protects that under the guise of "harassment and bullying". (I can hear the people coming to call me elitist for even pointing this out)

I don't want the developers wasting time and money on something that only (being generous here) 30% of the player base might aspire to. It is my firm opinion that the majority of the player base don't have the capacity to play simple jobs correctly and so a more complex kit would be lost on them.

Encounters however could use more rng, have more dynamic leveling like some of the awesomeness we got in Bodja and shake up the usual wall to wall pulling we do. It could be something that players of all levels enjoy regardless of personal skill. Almost like an equalizer of sorts.

I wish we could have both, jobs with more complexity to master AND dynamic encounters, but I'll take the encounters for now.

This is my opinion though of course, I would love for the general playerbase to prove me wrong and all of a sudden be different in 7.0. (Please... pretty please...healers dps in dungeons).

It's because of posts like this -especially that last line- nice touch there- that's some jobs have basically been so -oversimplified.. Your healers probably fell asleep.

Sometimes people will fail. That's OK. I would rather have that, than having jobs that are designed with this view of the player base.