FFXIV needs to stop accommodating Solo Players

[ty_taurus]

Thank you. This statement makes sense and I can see why many are feeling that particular way, I appreciate you clarifying. But as for the second part of your statement, I'd argue that because the roles are so defined, as has been the case for decades now when it comes to an MMO that follows the trinity of tank, dps, healer, that the coordination is still inherently there, but people understand what their roles are so well nowadays that we take it for granted. Hence why people are left feeling the way they do. I think this is a problem for all older MMO's truth be told. The community gets so used to the status quo that they clamour for something new to spice things up. The game already has savage and ultimate content for those that want more of a challenge, and we all agree that roulettes are easy to accomplish, mainly because it is a daily activity for gathering your tomes for the week.

So, what ideas might you have to add to the game to make things not feel as they do? More challenging 4 man content? Also, what's to stop players from coming full circle even if this more "challenging" content is added? After years of the same thing, won't players be left feeling as they are now?

What about simply making harder mechanics with less punishing consequences? I don't just mean non lethal damage, but what if some mechanics don't deal damage if you fail them, but inflict status effects instead--things that aren't a death sentence but impede your damage. Damage which I might add also doesn't matter outside of Extreme and beyond anyway. Like maybe you suffer paralysis, toad, or maybe you make it more interactive, like being trapped in a cage that you have to break out of before you can rejoin the fight.

[Suniva]

Ahh ty_taurus, thanks for soloing an 80 instance to prove it can be done. I have no idea why anyone would play the game like that other than for a challenge since it is not the optimal way to play. As I said in another post of mine, regardless if it can be done solo, there is no denying that cooperating with the 3 others in your party leads to you completing the dungeon faster, which the ultimate goal is completion of the dungeon for tomes. But like AmiableApkallu stated, it doesn't matter what the definition of the words are when people are left feeling the way that they do.

As for your idea, let's say it gets implemented. After years of doing content with those mechanics, what's to stop the community from coming right back around and starting this whole process again? It is a never ending cycle of trying to implement different things to keep the audience engaged, which is why we see fights using mechanics we are all familiar with, but in different sequences. Sure, more can be done, and sometimes something new gets added, but after a while even that something new will become stale and people will go right back to saying that the game needs something new. Hopefully with Dawntrail and with what Yoshi P stated, there may be some changes that get implemented that make the game feel less like what it does now, but we have to wait and see if those changes do in fact come, and how long the community will be satiated before we are right back here again.

Right now we have what we have in game and even the OP of this thread seems to have given up on it since it has sort of been derailed (Kind of OP's fault since they were so incredibly vague despite others attempting to get them to be more specific) into "Stop Accomdating solo players" to people expressing their "feelings" on why they feels like the game is soloable and wanting more, let's say, dynamic content. I do see this as an unending issue that can never be fully rectified however.

[ty_taurus]

Snip

The point isn't that people can just spend 80 minutes soloing a dungeon. It's that the mechanics are so relaxed that someone can solo the dungeon, even if it takes significantly longer to do so. Obviously any content that doesn't scale to the number of players will inherently go quicker with more people regardless of whether or not more people are required. I did that test in a response to what you had asked, if it was possible to effectively solo casual content like a dungeon as just a healer. Based on what you were responding to, the implication of your statement was that regardless of how easy the content is, you still depend on other players to clear it. But my challenge run as well as that video series I shared prove the opposite. And the thing is, I ran that dungeon synched. You can still clear content unsynched for quest progression, so you can absolutely just over level and solo dungeons in a far more reasonable amount of time anyway.

But Apkallu's point is where I think the most substantial point stands. The standard experience feels like you're going through the same hallway simulator adjacent to 3 other people, not necessarily that you're working with them to reach the end. And niether the mechanics nor the content's lack of need for the role system are have helped that in recent years.

I'm not sure if I understand what you're saying in your second paragraph, but it sounds like you're proposing nihilistic defeatism. "Even if the next expansion changes, the expansion after could just go back to this" So I guess we should just never do anything about the game ever, because even if changes are positive, those positive changes won't matter because they'll inevitably be subverted by worse changes later. Wasn't that literally what the Endwalker Story stood in opposition to?

As far as the topic is concerned, I want to stress that for the most part, there has not been agitation in the face of solo player content prior to Endwalker. Why? It goes back to a post I made a few pages earlier. There's nothing wrong with supporting solo play and fostering an environment that allows solo play to be an option. I would argue that it's a great thing, but it should not come at the cost of the multiplayer aspects of the game, because this is a "massively multiplayer" online RPG. The multiplayer is a part of the point. And Endwalker has felt like an expansion where mutliplayer elements were sacrificed for solo play.

[AmiableApkallu]

I think this is a problem for all older MMO's truth be told. The community gets so used to the status quo that they clamour for something new to spice things up. The game already has savage and ultimate content for those that want more of a challenge, and we all agree that roulettes are easy to accomplish, mainly because it is a daily activity for gathering your tomes for the week.

So, what ideas might you have to add to the game to make things not feel as they do? More challenging 4 man content? Also, what's to stop players from coming full circle even if this more "challenging" content is added? After years of the same thing, won't players be left feeling as they are now?

I'm not talking about whether content feels challenging, or whether it feels fresh when I run it for the 247th time.

I'm talking about whether it feels like I'm running it with other people. Modern dungeons and fights have lost all those little moments where I'm reminded that people are variable and make choices -- moments that existed independent of tanks knowing how to old aggro, healers knowing how to push a heal button, and DPS knowing how to push a damage button.

[Suniva]

I'm talking about whether it feels like I'm running it with other people. Modern dungeons and fights have lost all those little moments where I'm reminded that people are variable and make choices -- moments that existed independent of tanks knowing how to old aggro, healers knowing how to push a heal button, and DPS knowing how to push a damage button.

For bread-and-butter Duty Finder-able content, I would aim to make it feel like you're playing with other players without necessarily requiring any more communication than running in a direction and jumping up and down.

One way we get there is with a return of mechanics where somebody needs to act, but it doesn't matter exactly who. For example, picking up fire sand and hitting the detonator in Copperbell Mines. Or swatting away the bombs in A5N. Moments where I wonder how the party will self-organize.

Another way we get there is with a return to mechanics where you notice the effects of another player's choice. Where is someone going to drop that AoE, or take that flare? Where is that other alliance going to aim the death laser? Moments where someone else's choice might make my life… interesting.

Sounds like you want fights to be more dynamic. What instance did I run the other day, I believe it was vanaspati. At the end where you have the disruption move that blows up the platform and you have to dodge the opposite shape that appears on your screen and the circle attack. I was healing and we had a sprout that refused to spread out and their lack of awareness ended up causing me to die. So, is that what you're talking about, more fights like that where player agency actually matters? (Unless you have a warrior tank since they are incredibly broken right now).

[ty_taurus]

Sounds like you want fights to be more dynamic. What instance did I run the other day, I believe it was vanaspati. At the end where you have the disruption move that blows up the platform and you have to dodge the opposite shape that appears on your screen and the circle attack. I was healing and we had a sprout that refused to spread out and their lack of awareness ended up causing me to die. So, is that what you're talking about, more fights like that where player agency actually matters? (Unless you have a warrior tank since they are incredibly broken right now).

Here are some examples of mechanics that he's talking about in regards to wanting to feel like you are working with other people:

- Two role orbs spawn and hunt down either the DPS or the supports (tank and healer). If they reach that player, they explode, deal a decent chunk of damage to the whole party, and paralyze the entire party which can be Esuna'd. If a player of the opposite role (DPS or Support) pops the orb before it reaches the target, only they take the damage and there is no paralysis.

- Two adds spawn on each side of the arena. Both cannot be damaged and will stick around for 30 seconds before going away. Each will cast Disease 4 times, cycling through each member of the party, hitting them twice. Disease will make the other mechanic much harder do to the reduction in movement speed and healing. Both these adds can be put to Sleep by Repose or Sleep, which will last long enough to prevent them from debuffing the party during that mechanic. You need a healer or caster DPS to sleep them, or you'll take a lot of extra damage during the rest of the mechanic.

- A boss fills the room with toxic gas and there's a force field generator that creates a small safe zone from the heavy DOT around the arena. Adds will spawn to try and destroy it, but one party member can pick it up and keep it away from the adds, but this also causes the safe zone to move with them. (Hi there, Crystal Chronicles)

[SargeTheSeagull]

I've missed the forums. It's always entertaining to see that anyone who says "um akchually the game is fine as is and you need to go back to wow" is just straight up wrong and literally all evidence shows that. Endwalker has not FELT massively multiplayer. It's felt like a solo game where you occasionally work with other players for the sake of saving time on easy, mundane activities.

[MonteCristo]

I've missed the forums. It's always entertaining to see that anyone who says "um akchually the game is fine as is and you need to go back to wow" is just straight up wrong and literally all evidence shows that. Endwalker has not FELT massively multiplayer. It's felt like a solo game where you occasionally work with other players for the sake of saving time on easy, mundane activities.

Big ole facts

[Mawlzy]

I've missed the forums. It's always entertaining to see that anyone who says "um akchually the game is fine as is and you need to go back to wow" is just straight up wrong and literally all evidence shows that. Endwalker has not FELT massively multiplayer. It's felt like a solo game where you occasionally work with other players for the sake of saving time on easy, mundane activities.

Given that SE will continue to accommodate solo players, is there a path forward that generates the kind of content you would like to see?