ARR or Heavensward Classic

[Arkdra]

Okay, so... rebalance them. I don't really understand why we're roadblocking at this. Action parameters are a completely different piece to the gameplay than the actual rotational flow of each job, yet your statement implies that Heavensward job design is defined by its imbalance. I think you're severely misunderstanding what is actually being asked here.

What is being asked for are things like tanks having more defined play styles, healers having more attack spells, MP management and aggro management mattering, summoner not being a job with a macro-able rotation... I don't understand why you would think restoring qualities like that can only be accomplished by reverting to the exact state of balance that existed back then.

The context of this thread is for a wow classic server but for ARR or HW. Those experiences are delivered as is (or were, they got weird with it in wotlk but got super yelled at for it). If you are saying they don't have to deliver the baseline experience and can rebalance it then you aren't asking for a classic server, you are asking for a forked development server. And if you already don't think their job balancing is any good I don't know why you would expect this fork to end up any different?

[ty_taurus]

The context of this thread is for a wow classic server but for ARR or HW. Those experiences are delivered as is (or were, they got weird with it in wotlk but got super yelled at for it). If you are saying they don't have to deliver the baseline experience and can rebalance it then you aren't asking for a classic server, you are asking for a forked development server. And if you already don't think their job balancing is any good I don't know why you would expect this fork to end up any different?

Right... And WoW classic also receives regular updates including class changes and balance patches. What, did you think WoW classic was just some archived old patch state that is just kept that way in perpetuity? It's its own thing, and if the context of this thread is indeed a FFXIV classic with WoW classic in mind, then it would also be receiving new content, balance updates, items, glamour, etc.

[Arkdra]

Right... And WoW classic also receives regular updates including class changes and balance patches. What, did you think WoW classic was just some archived old patch state that is just kept that way in perpetuity? It's its own thing, and if the context of this thread is indeed a FFXIV classic with WoW classic in mind, then it would also be receiving new content, balance updates, items, glamour, etc.

Alright, sure, but then the fixes there are homogenization. If you wanted to balance hw you'd have to remove the assorted weapon damage buffs, pass out ninjas entire utility suite to other jobs and give whm something competitive with chain strat and balance. And then also an assortment of potency fiddling across the board but that's small potato's.

[ty_taurus]

Alright, sure, but then the fixes there are homogenization. If you wanted to balance hw you'd have to remove the assorted weapon damage buffs, pass out ninjas entire utility suite to other jobs and give whm something competitive with chain strat and balance. And then also an assortment of potency fiddling across the board but that's small potato's.

And I think that's entirely feasible while still retaining the qualities that people want from job design. I mean I think the real answer is just to move modern FFXIV away from this simplification crusade that no one is asking for. Asking for FFXIV Classic is more of a cynical jab at the lack of faith anyone seems to have that we ever will. The people asking for it would rather job design just have new life breathed into it but have no faith that SE ever will, so they'd rather just ask for a Heavensward server just to be able to play FFXIV before it turned into this.

I can't tell you how many times I wish I could just dick around with HW or SB Scholar because of how much I miss it.

[Arkdra]

And I think that's entirely feasible while still retaining the qualities that people want from job design. I mean I think the real answer is just to move modern FFXIV away from this simplification crusade that no one is asking for. Asking for FFXIV Classic is more of a cynical jab at the lack of faith anyone seems to have that we ever will. The people asking for it would rather job design just have new life breathed into it but have no faith that SE ever will, so they'd rather just ask for a Heavensward server just to be able to play FFXIV before it turned into this.

I can't tell you how many times I wish I could just dick around with HW or SB Scholar because of how much I miss it.

Given the endless complaints about homogenization, I am unsure if hw but with a little homogenization, as a treat, would pan out broadly but at least the 2 of us have a consensus on this I suppose.

[ty_taurus]

Given the endless complaints about homogenization, I am unsure if hw but with a little homogenization, as a treat, would pan out broadly but at least the 2 of us have a consensus on this I suppose.

I think the flaw is in assuming homogenization is the only answer to resolving balance concerns from Heavensward or Stormblood job balance. Just because that is the answer SE chased does not mean it is the only answer to creating healthier balance between jobs.