ARR or Heavensward Classic

[Aravell]

I'd honestly gladly take back all the inconveniences like cooldowns not resetting on wipe, running out of TP naturally and having to queue up for the raid at the entrance if it meant I can get HW SCH, MCH and SMN back.

[Yuella]

Neither. I prefer a mixture of HW and Stormblood. Remove TP, keep aggro management with tank stance and dps stance, keep cleric stance

[Absurdity]

Neither. I prefer a mixture of HW and Stormblood. Remove TP, keep aggro management with tank stance and dps stance, keep cleric stance

TP was still a thing in both expansions.

No.

The qol changes from later on are immense. No one would want arr classic or hw classic.

This has some major "You think you do, but you don't." energy.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

TP was still a thing in both expansions.



This has some major "You think you do, but you don't." energy.

I mean, yes, it is. Especially if its in patch order.


People don't remember a lot of things from back then. WAR was pretty bad, and had to be changed in 2.1 or 2.2.


Food wore off on death. Raid prog could have you go through half a stack of food. Changed in 2.x somewhere, but still.


No CD reset on wipes or instance entry. Having to wait 6+ minutes every wipe if Hallowed was used just prior.


No auto-dismount when talking to NPCs.


No inventory upgrades. Houses cost 30mil for smalls, 200+mil for larges.



Much, much more.


I mean, the patch notes are all there if you are interested.

[Fyrebrand]

No auto-dismount when talking to NPCs.

Oh god, I remember this nonsense. You couldn't queue for a dungeon if you had Chocobo Companion active. And correct me if I'm misremembering, but it was even stupider in the other direction -- if you summoned Chocobo Companion while you were already in a dungeon queue, it automatically kicked you out of the queue without warning..?

[Jeeqbit]

Anyone who played since then knows how much Quality of Life we've had since then. It's easy to forget just how much we've had, but if any of us went back to then, we'd miss all the Quality of Life and want to return to now.

Contrary to what you see everyone say, most of what SE has done since ARR has been improving the game.

There is far too much Quality of Life for me to even remember off the top of my head, but they include things like cooldown resets upon wiping, not needing to level another class to 15 to unlock your job, not needing to level other jobs for basic role actions, removal of bloat like Featherfoot and Keen Flurry, action/ability upgrading so we don't have to make macros, cone targeting, disable right-click selection of minions and players in battle, hide quest list during instanced duty, alliance raid roulette, normal raid roulette, cross-world PF, [Duty Complete], [Duty Complete (Weekly Reward Unclaimed)], [Practice], PF search, sounds when a party fills, world visiting, DC travel, having 999 stacks instead of 99, being able to teleport to a dungeon boss arena after it locks if you didn't get there in time, listing teleport destinations by expansion, PLD having aoes, tanks having aoe combos, tanks physical mits now mitting everything, not needing to face a target to auto, not needing to face a target to block, ranged attacks not resetting your combo, combos taking longer to expire, buff timers displaying in the party list, waymark saving, more waymarks, mount speed increases (we used to move super slow due to PS3), chocobos no longer in the party so you can queue for duties with it out, double the max food and gysahl green duration, flying in ARR and all mounts can fly, a 4000 cap on hunt currencies instead of 1000, old tomestone gear is pre-augmented, mount and minion favorites, New Game+, unlock quests being blue...

There are a few things people miss from these expansions. But it really is just a few things. Most of it would be a nightmare if we went back. And it's not that they really want things to be as they were then, but rather that they want things to be punishing or sophisticated in the way they were then but not in the same way.

For example, there could be more complex substats... but I don't think people really want them to be like Heavensward like they claim. Because then we had parry, an RNG stat for useless physical mitigation; we had physical mitigation like Foresight and Sheltron and Raw Inuition, elemental mitigation that was useful against only a specific cast in specific fights and therefore useless, and Accuracy which you had to stack to 100% or your combos got interrupted all the time. The substat system was more complex, sure, but not in a good way and I think people mean to do it in a "good way" rather than to copy Heavensward.

[TaleraRistain]

There is far too much Quality of Life for me to even remember off the top of my head, but they include things like cooldown resets upon wiping, not needing to level another class to 15 to unlock your job, not needing to level other jobs for basic role actions, removal of bloat like Featherfoot and Keen Flurry, action/ability upgrading so we don't have to make macros, cone targeting, disable right-click selection of minions and players in battle, hide quest list during instanced duty, alliance raid roulette, normal raid roulette, cross-world PF, [Duty Complete], [Duty Complete (Weekly Reward Unclaimed)], [Practice], PF search, sounds when a party fills, world visiting, DC travel, having 999 stacks instead of 99, being able to teleport to a dungeon boss arena after it locks if you didn't get there in time, listing teleport destinations by expansion, PLD having aoes, tanks having aoe combos, tanks physical mits now mitting everything, not needing to face a target to auto, not needing to face a target to block, ranged attacks not resetting your combo, combos taking longer to expire, buff timers displaying in the party list, waymark saving, more waymarks, mount speed increases (we used to move super slow due to PS3), chocobos no longer in the party so you can queue for duties with it out, double the max food and gysahl green duration, flying in ARR and all mounts can fly, a 4000 cap on hunt currencies instead of 1000, old tomestone gear is pre-augmented, mount and minion favorites, New Game+, unlock quests being blue...

There are a few things people miss from these expansions. But it really is just a few things. Most of it would be a nightmare if we went back. And it's not that they really want things to be as they were then, but rather that they want things to be punishing or sophisticated in the way they were then but not in the same way.

For example, there could be more complex substats... but I don't think people really want them to be like Heavensward like they claim. Because then we had parry, an RNG stat for useless physical mitigation; we had physical mitigation like Foresight and Sheltron and Raw Inuition, elemental mitigation that was useful against only a specific cast in specific fights and therefore useless, and Accuracy which you had to stack to 100% or your combos got interrupted all the time. The substat system was more complex, sure, but not in a good way and I think people mean to do it in a "good way" rather than to copy Heavensward.

Okay nevermind, Jeeq has a good list here. I mean I would think DC travel alone would be a dealbreaker. Do people who want Classic really only want to be able to queue with those on that DC? The queues would probably be worse than Dynamis.

[Post]

All that's really gone from that era could mostly be simulated in the current game by tweaking battle content stuff:
Direct Hit as a stat doesn't apply outside of like... BRD's Battle Voice chance until level 61 (it was introduced in StB; enemy's hp was never balanced to address this outside of specific rebalanced fights like story Ultima Weapon)
Basic weapons kill/spell potencies get associated boosting traits for every expansion level range instead of only at 84 (so combos aren't hitting 1.5x as hard as they did when that content was current)
Remove Vit from pre ShB accessories except fending

It's impossible to put the genie back into the bottle with regards to:
enmity (even just supercharging tank stances enmity generation at 71+ would leave every other job devoid of the many enmity management tools they once had)
AoE damage (was once greatly tied to TP and MP costs as a limiting factor and was also one of BLM's original strengths being resource-free; now fights like t4 and a2s are even more laughably trivial comparatively to their peers; this also doubled down on how trivial dungeon trash is to wall to wall pull)
Dungeon mechanics (trusts exist now and their battle design wasn't made with AI companions in mind, so now we just design around their inability to do things players can do, like yeah while moving, react to other players or reposition enemies)
Maybe the last one could be alleviated going forward by making separate trust versions of dungeons, but at this point not many people seem to think people wanting more variety in dungeons are worth giving a shit about.

Edit for above: reset cooldowns on wipe was a HW change.
The dungeon boss teleport actually forces you into a boss, even interrupts a cutscene you may be watching and rewarding players that don't wait until their team is ready to pull
We still have purely physical and magical mitigation
Keen Flurry provided a way to mitigate and survive certain attacks for DRG (which were more plentiful in that era of the game), who now has nothing but hp recovery, also a tool from that era of the game from both bloodbath (MRD) and Second Wind (PGL)
I get what you're trying to say, but many of these QooLs are just 'differences'. Hell, we could teleport and return in combat in ARR, but they REMOVED that one for some reason.
The game's largely the same except they've removed a ton of systems from battle content and added basically nothing in their place.

[Jojoya]

It's all in the name ! Choose.

They won't be what you remember. You know too much now.

[DiaDeem]