Do you know why the average pf player is so bad?

[Nadda]

The problem is more that I don't comprehend how it even stresses you out. It's a random casual dungeon. I don't comprehend how you care so much.

Wait, we are talking about PF and higher end content now?

My suggestion to you if you can't comprehend where I'm coming from is to start by trying to do that. Put yourself in the shoes of someone who does care so much and why.

To answer your second question the thread is asking "Do you know why the average pf player is so bad" - maybe it has more to do with verbiage but when I think PF I think of doing EXs/Unreals, Savage or Ultimates.
Not Dungeons we do in duty roulette.
Dungeons and normal trials factor into the discussion but only to the extent that they aren't challenging enough in regards to acclimating player competency to enter other content. So it is and isn't about dungeons.

The game provides you all the tools you need to play the game with the types of players that meet your criteria. You can create your own PFs and linkshells and network with the types of players who take the game more seriously... and that's fine.

But once you queue up into Duty Finder, you agree to play with the team the Duty Finder matches you with, or... take the penalty. If you queue up to someone else's PF, you meet their standards or... leave them and find ones that are more in line with yours. Demanding a particular skill level from the team you're randomly matched with, is a you problem, and in the other players' point of view, you're the selfish one, trying to hinder their fun, just to save a few minutes of your day.

Now, if someone without the skills, lies their way into your PF and ruins your day, then sure, complain all you want.

I think you are misunderstanding something which is saying I'm demanding a particular skill level.
Again. I was addressing the hypothetical player that was proposed. One that could honestly be created within the current content pipeline.
The idea it doesn't matter how competent they are based on their level as long as they are personally having fun, is self-indulgent. To be accepting of that behavior is coddling and atrophies player growth.
Now I'll say this for a third time. I am tolerant of your run of the mill random goof you'll find in a duty roulette.
Being tolerant doesn't make it okay. Especially at the expense of others because one person's fun shouldn't infringe on everybody else's fun.
Yes, you do agree to be randomly paired with people in a duty roulette (I'll be moving the conversation towards PF in a bit) but you know part of that social contract is also having the competency to play your role. Otherwise, you're most certainly griefing a group. Especially when you're talking about higher levels (as in actual levels in this case) of content.

To add an additional thought experiment to the mix; it's like for example an individual who doesn't know how to heal, queueing up as a healer to do all their duty roulettes because they know their queues will instantly pop and that they'll get all the juicy rewards at the end because they queued healer.

This is a random example but my point about that type of player is that according to you that becomes a "You" problem for me. I didn't choose this person. Sure I randomly got stuck with the person but wouldn't you agree then at least within the confines of this hypothetical at least that the person who queued up as a healer main has some form of responsibility in doing that job competently? It's kinda like, being the person on the air plane next to the emergency door. You get the extra leg room (fast queue times) but the social expectation is for you to help people in a crisis.

Are we then going to argue when the plane is on fire that it's our fault some random person who decided to opt into that chair decides not to help anyone and is the first person off the plane? (actually, ignore that question, I know most gamers at large are cynical - but my point stands)

now of course duty roulettes aren't life or death. Though I'd also argue that the suggestion that people would just take leaver penalties because of a single bad player is obtuse. You'll tolerate it. As I said but that doesn't make it good.

Perhaps it should, perhaps it shouldn't. The game is trying to appeal to a wide audience, with differing views and opinions on what constitutes fun.

This is sort of what the thread is about.
Again I've not suggested content as it stands needs to become non-approachable to a wider audience. The game can become better at gradually introducing concepts and inducing more instances of danger to over time cause people to acclimate naturally. Believe it or not that's what the casual content's intended purpose is. We hear a lot about needing to manufacture more midcore content to bridge the gap between normal content to EX/Unreal.

I don't believe there would be such a gap if we just cranked the heat up on normal content progressively throughout your leveling process so by max level in the job you are playing EX/Unreal will still be a hurdle (so it will be difficult) but you won't have this result where the skill gap is so large because the base game asks so little of you before then that you quit because it's too staggering.

Players who're interested in more difficult content will learn and do it regardless, players who aren't, won't ever care. Trying to force people into content they're not interested in, is how you lose your customers.

It's almost ironic beforehand I'm told I'm a gatekeeper and then to another, I'm forcing people into content they aren't interested in. I digress.
You're absolutely right. Players who don't care won't ever care and I can't force them to do things they don't want.
I don't particularly care for the players who don't care. tbh
I care about the players we lose for higher levels (talking about difficulty this time) of content because the base game never asked anything of them and they are faced with this massive skill wall and quit before they even try to learn.
We should be doing a better job to make that transition easier for people who do care.

Based on the second statement underneath I'm assuming you're a former WoW player? lol I don't want people to be running sims, using fflogs or xivanalysis - I'm not endorsing that. You don't even need to do those things to be competent or do EXs/Unreals.


To your last point. Yes, they are dead weight. I'm not going to pretend they aren't dead weight. I'm not soft or sentimental when it comes to reasonable expectations. Now I'll still carry dead weight to the finish line to the bitter end but that's because I like the exercise. Especially as a healer. Makes my job more interesting but they are a burden they need to try harder. Everyone makes mistakes but mistakes aren't routine.