Skill-up's

[Nazrakin]

I can't agree with several of the falsities your have mentioned. It felt like an alpha because it was released in a not finished state and was very unpolished. A lot of people did quit because the servers were super laggy to the point where mobs would kill you and you can't even target them because of some terrible server issues. Not everyone quit because of those reasons but a decent handful of them did. Actually the combat and all that wasn't too bad and if you go and look at multiple reviews that was one of the things that kept the games score around a 5 (out of 10) and not any lower than that. At the base of it all it had a entertaining combat system to it and personally although I like the new combat better I still miss having multiple base attacks to use at will.

If it was simply a case of the game being unfinished then it would be perfect by now. Instead, Yoshida and his team are purging the game of nearly every gameplay implement that the original design had. Those things are being ripped out for one reason: they didn't work, and they are being replaced by tried and true systems that have proven to work.

The people that didn't quit because of the server issues quit because everything else outside of combat was not finished and like you said some of the ideas weren't flushed all the way out. So there was no content, leveling up sucked at the time because gaining exp was totally random. Etc etc etc, the list goes on. Even as though things have changes the current engine is what keeps the game from reaching greatness.

I'm not going to pretend like I know why every single person quit the game. What I do know is that every MMO has server issues at the start. WOW had a lot of the same problems that made it impossible to enjoy at times. People stuck with the game because they could see the potential. What I also know is that you don't tear apart systems that are working fine. It would make no sense for Yoshida is get rid of things like fatigue and physical levels if people were so in love with them.

First of all the questing system was around before WoW came out, it is a common MMO streamline to get added into games because it is effective and generally (though opinions differ) a more enjoyable and rewarding system.

The questing system was absolutely popularized by WOW. None of the other major players at the time used such a system. WOW was the first to fully embrace it and now every major MMO on the market follows the exact same design.

I already gave you content finder though that is a streamline feature in all the new MMOs these days as well. Free companies? What did that come from? I haven't seen that in an MMO before, especially WoW. Hard modes, I can give you that one as well though it also is yet another streamline feature, something to challenge the hard core players. So anything else besides the common streamlined features that most players expect in a new MMO? I guess I fail to see how that makes a game like WoW. I forgot to address crowd control, really? Every single RPG I have ever played has crowd control in it.

I don't even see the point in arguing this. You're just going to dismiss everything as "common streamlined features" -- even though none of them were ever popular in the genre before WOW. I'm sure you're right though, the developers aren't looking at WOW and other successful MMOs at all; everything is totally fresh and new. 2.0 is going to revolutionize the MMO genre with brand new gameplay ideas that have never been seen before...

[Dargoth_Draconia]

If it was simply a case of the game being unfinished then it would be perfect by now. Instead, Yoshida and his team are purging the game of nearly every gameplay implement that the original design had. Those things are being ripped out for one reason: they didn't work, and they are being replaced by tried and true systems that have proven to work.

Wrong yet again sir. The games engine is the biggest issue and until 2.0 comes out the game won't even be able to reach something akin to perfection. I don't see him purging the game of all these things you claim didn't work, even Tanaka said before that the fatigue system was never planned on being a permanent thing. Also Yoshi-P said and stayed true to keep the game in Tanaka's orginal image. You assume everything Yoshi-P has added was his idea, he was following the Tanaka guideline up to a certain point. I don't see this game being gutted like you said it is.

I'm not going to pretend like I know why every single person quit the game. What I do know is that every MMO has server issues at the start. WOW had a lot of the same problems that made it impossible to enjoy at times. People stuck with the game because they could see the potential. What I also know is that you don't tear apart systems that are working fine. It would make no sense for Yoshida is get rid of things like fatigue and physical levels if people were so in love with them.

People weren't in love with fatigue system and actually on the poll he was surprised to see people wanted physical levels to go, though I think a lot of us misinterpreted what it would mean after physical levels were gone. Physical levels was never an issue and that only changed because he decided to approach that game with the fans in mind. He started doing the polls and all that and let people decide how they want the game to go. Was it a big loss? No, but was that aspect of the game hurting or sucked? no.

The questing system was absolutely popularized by WOW. None of the other major players at the time used such a system. WOW was the first to fully embrace it and now every major MMO on the market follows the exact same design.

I admit it was popularized by WoW but it was around before WoW. Thanks to wow it has become a streamlined feature that all MMORPGs implement.

I don't even see the point in arguing this. You're just going to dismiss everything as "common streamlined features" -- even though none of them were ever popular in the genre before WOW. I'm sure you're right though, the developers aren't looking at WOW and other successful MMOs at all; everything is totally fresh and new. 2.0 is going to revolutionize the MMO genre with brand new gameplay ideas that have never been seen before...

I am not dismissing everything as a streamline feature I am simply calling it as it is. You know calling a duck a duck and not a chicken! All those features are streamlined in the new MMOs, take a look at them like Guild Wars 2 or Tera etc and other games that just came out or coming out and features like these are implemented from the start. I never said they aren't looking at other games for inspiration, in fact I said that is what they are doing but they are rehashing and reinventing tried and true systems and bring them about in a fresh new way. Beside the content finder, not much can be changed with something like that. Any who I am done arguing with you have fun believe whatever it is you wish to believe. Have fun being bitter

[Rannie]

I admit it was popularized by WoW but it was around before WoW. Thanks to wow it has become a streamlined feature that all MMORPGs implement.

I don't know about popularization of quests by wow but I used to play nexus the kingdom of winds which is one of the first original MMO's and it had quests in it. You're quite right questing was around way before wow. And actually I think there was questing in any of the text based D&d online gaming styles like M.U.D.D But then again the whole thing was considered a "quest" Haven't ever done a mudd but i know for regular d&d the dm is setting up a quest for players to do.

Edit: On a side note I'm now feeling old my age and tired and feel like going into stories like "Back in my day when internet first came about we didn't have this here high tech mumbo jumbo dsl or cable or even fiber optics with something called fios the best we had was a modem connected to a telephone line and highest speed was a 56k Flex and that was faster than you could say jimmy cricket in slow motion while trying to sign on Aol! Youngins today have it so good" *leans on cane*

Edit 2: sorry I typed that previous edit on a tired mind. Now i go to bed night night...

[Nazrakin]

Wrong yet again sir. The games engine is the biggest issue and until 2.0 comes out the game won't even be able to reach something akin to perfection. I don't see him purging the game of all these things you claim didn't work, even Tanaka said before that the fatigue system was never planned on being a permanent thing. Also Yoshi-P said and stayed true to keep the game in Tanaka's orginal image. You assume everything Yoshi-P has added was his idea, he was following the Tanaka guideline up to a certain point. I don't see this game being gutted like you said it is.

Lets see: Fatigue is long gone. Physical levels are already gone and the base classes are already marginalized by Jobs. Battle Regiment is dead and coming back as something more like skillchains. Behest and caravan are being completely redone. Leveling will revolve around quest hubs and instanced dungeons. The engine, the ui, the zones. Heck, as much as we've talked about 2.0 distinguishing itself from FFXI and WOW -- the truth is that it is really an attempt to get away from FFXIV.

People weren't in love with fatigue system and actually on the poll he was surprised to see people wanted physical levels to go, though I think a lot of us misinterpreted what it would mean after physical levels were gone. Physical levels was never an issue and that only changed because he decided to approach that game with the fans in mind. He started doing the polls and all that and let people decide how they want the game to go. Was it a big loss? No, but was that aspect of the game hurting or sucked? no.

They were two of many.

I admit it was popularized by WoW but it was around before WoW. Thanks to wow it has become a streamlined feature that all MMORPGs implement.

I am not dismissing everything as a streamline feature I am simply calling it as it is. You know calling a duck a duck and not a chicken! All those features are streamlined in the new MMOs, take a look at them like Guild Wars 2 or Tera etc and other games that just came out or coming out and features like these are implemented from the start. I never said they aren't looking at other games for inspiration, in fact I said that is what they are doing but they are rehashing and reinventing tried and true systems and bring them about in a fresh new way. Beside the content finder, not much can be changed with something like that. Any who I am done arguing with you have fun believe whatever it is you wish to believe. Have fun being bitter

Right... so how am I wrong to say that it is something they are taking from WOW? I don't see how it matters that everyone else is doing it. Anyway, I'm glad that you're done trying to argue this. Ciao.