Skill-up's

[Jynx]

Yoshi-P & team are doing that and it is a nice change of pace from normal MMO standard.

Not to be blunt but I would be glad to hear what Yoshi-P & co are doing that is "A nice change of pace from normal MMO standard."

If anything they are conforming to MMO market cliches that have been prevalent the past few years. Not saying it's a bad thing to do but I would like to hear what they are doing that is breaking boundries in the MMO market.

[Yucie]

Not to be blunt but I would be glad to hear what Yoshi-P & co are doing that is "A nice change of pace from normal MMO standard."

If anything they are conforming to MMO market cliches that have been prevalent the past few years. Not saying it's a bad thing to do but I would like to hear what they are doing that is breaking boundries in the MMO market.

Breaking boundaries doesn't always have a positive effect. Go too far and you're likely to fail.

[Jynx]

Breaking boundaries doesn't always have a positive effect. Go too far and you're likely to fail.

Not sure how this is relevant to my question. The person I quoted stated that Yoshi's design philosiphy is a nice change of pace from normal MMO standards. I guess my real question is what is his definition of.

"MMO standard"

Because MMO standard is pretty much what we have been seeing the past few months with highly instanced content and low risk vs high reward mechanics. (Materia system withstanding of course)

[SwordCoheir]

Breaking boundaries doesn't always have a positive effect. Go too far and you're likely to fail.

Aye, remember the fatigue system. It was good in concept, but was so restrictive and slow it backfired in the end.

[Dargoth_Draconia]

Not to be blunt but I would be glad to hear what Yoshi-P & co are doing that is "A nice change of pace from normal MMO standard."

If anything they are conforming to MMO market cliches that have been prevalent the past few years. Not saying it's a bad thing to do but I would like to hear what they are doing that is breaking boundries in the MMO market.

The entire game is different from anything I have played especially thanks to the new content added by Yoshi-P.

There is nothing wrong with borrowing from FFXI. I think one of the big issues with this game was exactly that it tried too hard to distinguish itself. FFXI wasn't perfect and there is plenty to improve and add to -- but it did some things fantastically well and I do wish that the original FFXIV design had embraced more of it.

I don't mean to aim this rant at you, it just bothers me to constantly see the "if you want x, then go play FFXI" line that gets thrown around here so often.

It needs to distinguish itself from FFXI more than ever at this point in time. I already said it was okay to borrow ideas from FFXI but if they wanted a FFXI 2.0 then they would have made it instead. So I am sorry you're tired of hearing go play FFXI if you want FFXI, but the truth hurts my friend. As well as go play FFXI is a very valid point also I am just as tired of seeing threads pop up every single day saying this was in FFXI it needs to be in this game. How many FF games that come in sequential order are anything past the basics like one another?

No it is time for 2.0 to come out and what similarities it has of XI needs to end there and a new game will be born and better than FFXI. So I can finally stop looking back and wondering if I should reactivate my FFXI account.

[Nazrakin]

The entire game is different from anything I have played especially thanks to the new content added by Yoshi-P.

It needs to distinguish itself from FFXI more than ever at this point in time. I already said it was okay to borrow ideas from FFXI but if they wanted a FFXI 2.0 then they would have made it instead. So I am sorry you're tired of hearing go play FFXI if you want FFXI, but the truth hurts my friend. As well as go play FFXI is a very valid point also I am just as tired of seeing threads pop up every single day saying this was in FFXI it needs to be in this game. How many FF games that come in sequential order are anything past the basics like one another?

No it is time for 2.0 to come out and what similarities it has of XI needs to end there and a new game will be born and better than FFXI. So I can finally stop looking back and wondering if I should reactivate my FFXI account.

The truth is that the original FFXIV tried to be something completely new and it was an utter failure. The truth is that Yoshi *is* looking back at FFXI and reincorporating features that worked there. 2.0 isn't shaping up to be something entirely new, its becoming a grab bag of features from WOW, FFXI, and other *successful* MMOs. So this idea that people shouldn't request their favorite features from FFXI is absolutely asinine. If you are expecting something brand new then I suspect you are the one in for a hurting.

2.0 will not have any problem distinguishing itself from FFXI. The little bits we've seen and know make that absolutely clear. My fear is that we'll end up with something that is 80% WOW.

[Dargoth_Draconia]

The truth is that the original FFXIV tried to be something completely new and it was an utter failure. The truth is that Yoshi *is* looking back at FFXI and reincorporating features that worked there. 2.0 isn't shaping up to be something entirely new, its becoming a grab bag of features from WOW, FFXI, and other *successful* MMOs. So this idea that people shouldn't request their favorite features from FFXI is absolutely asinine. If you are expecting something brand new then I suspect you are the one in for a hurting.

2.0 will not have any problem distinguishing itself from FFXI. The little bits we've seen and know make that absolutely clear. My fear is that we'll end up with something that is 80% WOW.

FFXIV's failure wasn't because they tried new things, it failed because the game launched in a pre-alpha state and the game engine was pure garbage. The game didn't have any end game content, hell it didn't have any game content other than a few missions and leveling up.

They are pulling some "inspiration" from other games to attract more players but that is the extent of it. The idea of people stop asking them to make the game into FFXI or more like it while FFXI is still around is asinine. How about be be creative and come up with new ideas or even new interpretations of those said features from other games. I am not hurting because I see plenty of new things on the horizon for 2.0 and I am excited for it.

You are right about it not having any problems with distinguishing itself from FFXI but I add a correction of any other games out there as well. You shouldn't fear it being anything like WoW because of one or two similar features, the game play is still way different no matter how you look at it, so how can you in any sense even see WoW in FFXIV? Only feature I have read at all that really reminds me of WoW and other games that use it is the dungeon finder/content finder. Feel free to tell me what else you feel will be like WoW if there is anything at all. I would say this game has a 0% chance to become anything like WoW.

[Nazrakin]

FFXIV's failure wasn't because they tried new things, it failed because the game launched in a pre-alpha state and the game engine was pure garbage. The game didn't have any end game content, hell it didn't have any game content other than a few missions and leveling up.

They are pulling some "inspiration" from other games to attract more players but that is the extent of it. The idea of people stop asking them to make the game into FFXI or more like it while FFXI is still around is asinine. How about be be creative and come up with new ideas or even new interpretations of those said features from other games. I am not hurting because I see plenty of new things on the horizon for 2.0 and I am excited for it.

You are right about it not having any problems with distinguishing itself from FFXI but I add a correction of any other games out there as well. You shouldn't fear it being anything like WoW because of one or two similar features, the game play is still way different no matter how you look at it, so how can you in any sense even see WoW in FFXIV? Only feature I have read at all that really reminds me of WoW and other games that use it is the dungeon finder/content finder. Feel free to tell me what else you feel will be like WoW if there is anything at all. I would say this game has a 0% chance to become anything like WoW.

The game felt like an Alpha because it introduced all these awful new ideas that were never fully fleshed out. It was like they were trying new things just to be new and people hated them across the board. People didn't quit because the game crashed a few times and the servers were a little laggy, they quit because it just flat out wasn't fun to play; because the gameplay systems that were in place were failures.

The game has improved because Yoshida (& co) have looked around at what everyone else did right and he's scoop out a lot of the those "unique" systems that didn't work. Looking forward to 2.0, he's going to continue to do just that. What is being taken from WOW? Pretty much everything that has been hyped so far. The questing system, the new UI, content finder, heavy reliance on crowd control, free companies, easy/hard modes for raids. The only exceptions I can think of are the changes to crafting and summons.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it either. I don't want it to become too much like WOW, but I have no problem with the team taking good ideas from other places. Refinement is, generally, what leads to fantastic games. It's rare that wee see truely innovative games that are nothing more than great potential. FFXI and WOW both took the Everquest formula and made it better. I fully support FFXIV looking back at its elders and doing the same.

[Dargoth_Draconia]

The game felt like an Alpha because it introduced all these awful new ideas that were never fully fleshed out. It was like they were trying new things just to be new and people hated them across the board. People didn't quit because the game crashed a few times and the servers were a little laggy, they quit because it just flat out wasn't fun to play; because the gameplay systems that were in place were failures.

The game has improved because Yoshida (& co) have looked around at what everyone else did right and he's scoop out a lot of the those "unique" systems that didn't work. Looking forward to 2.0, he's going to continue to do just that. What is being taken from WOW? Pretty much everything that has been hyped so far. The questing system, the new UI, content finder, heavy reliance on crowd control, free companies, easy/hard modes for raids. The only exceptions I can think of are the changes to crafting and summons.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it either. I don't want it to become too much like WOW, but I have no problem with the team taking good ideas from other places. Refinement is, generally, what leads to fantastic games. It's rare that wee see truely innovative games that are nothing more than great potential. FFXI and WOW both took the Everquest formula and made it better. I fully support FFXIV looking back at its elders and doing the same.

I can't agree with several of the falsities your have mentioned. It felt like an alpha because it was released in a not finished state and was very unpolished. A lot of people did quit because the servers were super laggy to the point where mobs would kill you and you can't even target them because of some terrible server issues. Not everyone quit because of those reasons but a decent handful of them did. Actually the combat and all that wasn't too bad and if you go and look at multiple reviews that was one of the things that kept the games score around a 5 (out of 10) and not any lower than that. At the base of it all it had a entertaining combat system to it and personally although I like the new combat better I still miss having multiple base attacks to use at will.

The people that didn't quit because of the server issues quit because everything else outside of combat was not finished and like you said some of the ideas weren't flushed all the way out. So there was no content, leveling up sucked at the time because gaining exp was totally random. Etc etc etc, the list goes on. Even as though things have changes the current engine is what keeps the game from reaching greatness.
Also in response to this: The questing system, the new UI, content finder, heavy reliance on crowd control, free companies, easy/hard modes for raids. The only exceptions I can think of are the changes to crafting and summons. First of all the questing system was around before WoW came out, it is a common MMO streamline to get added into games because it is effective and generally (though opinions differ) a more enjoyable and rewarding system. I already gave you content finder though that is a streamline feature in all the new MMOs these days as well. Free companies? What did that come from? I haven't seen that in an MMO before, especially WoW. Hard modes, I can give you that one as well though it also is yet another streamline feature, something to challenge the hard core players. So anything else besides the common streamlined features that most players expect in a new MMO? I guess I fail to see how that makes a game like WoW. I forgot to address crowd control, really? Every single RPG I have ever played has crowd control in it.

[Nazrakin]

I can't agree with several of the falsities your have mentioned. It felt like an alpha because it was released in a not finished state and was very unpolished. A lot of people did quit because the servers were super laggy to the point where mobs would kill you and you can't even target them because of some terrible server issues. Not everyone quit because of those reasons but a decent handful of them did. Actually the combat and all that wasn't too bad and if you go and look at multiple reviews that was one of the things that kept the games score around a 5 (out of 10) and not any lower than that. At the base of it all it had a entertaining combat system to it and personally although I like the new combat better I still miss having multiple base attacks to use at will.

If it was simply a case of the game being unfinished then it would be perfect by now. Instead, Yoshida and his team are purging the game of nearly every gameplay implement that the original design had. Those things are being ripped out for one reason: they didn't work, and they are being replaced by tried and true systems that have proven to work.

The people that didn't quit because of the server issues quit because everything else outside of combat was not finished and like you said some of the ideas weren't flushed all the way out. So there was no content, leveling up sucked at the time because gaining exp was totally random. Etc etc etc, the list goes on. Even as though things have changes the current engine is what keeps the game from reaching greatness.

I'm not going to pretend like I know why every single person quit the game. What I do know is that every MMO has server issues at the start. WOW had a lot of the same problems that made it impossible to enjoy at times. People stuck with the game because they could see the potential. What I also know is that you don't tear apart systems that are working fine. It would make no sense for Yoshida is get rid of things like fatigue and physical levels if people were so in love with them.

First of all the questing system was around before WoW came out, it is a common MMO streamline to get added into games because it is effective and generally (though opinions differ) a more enjoyable and rewarding system.

The questing system was absolutely popularized by WOW. None of the other major players at the time used such a system. WOW was the first to fully embrace it and now every major MMO on the market follows the exact same design.

I already gave you content finder though that is a streamline feature in all the new MMOs these days as well. Free companies? What did that come from? I haven't seen that in an MMO before, especially WoW. Hard modes, I can give you that one as well though it also is yet another streamline feature, something to challenge the hard core players. So anything else besides the common streamlined features that most players expect in a new MMO? I guess I fail to see how that makes a game like WoW. I forgot to address crowd control, really? Every single RPG I have ever played has crowd control in it.

I don't even see the point in arguing this. You're just going to dismiss everything as "common streamlined features" -- even though none of them were ever popular in the genre before WOW. I'm sure you're right though, the developers aren't looking at WOW and other successful MMOs at all; everything is totally fresh and new. 2.0 is going to revolutionize the MMO genre with brand new gameplay ideas that have never been seen before...