The Hunt is garbage and needs to be fixed

[Eraden]

They shouldn't be fixed player-side, because the problem here is you create some false sense of authority with the people conducting the train which is already a problem in some spaces... Even then, you do also have the situation of... What players want other players to do and what they will do are 2 entirely different things, especially when it is taking efficiency into account... People aren't going to turn down 240 tomes just because a conductor said so, especially when the game systems permit otherwise.

This is a general problem with hunts on the community-side, is the assumed level of non-existent authority, versus the reality of just plain and simple courtesy. It should always be viewed as a courtesy rather than a conductor or spawner(s) ultimately holding authority. Like I get it, they spawned it, they tracked it, etc., etc., - This doesn't mean any authority should be placed. At best, just a courtesy to people doing the 'legwork'

On the second point, I don't necessarily think that just because people want hunts to be replaced or reworked, that they are arguing for something with a less multiplayer-oriented experience. In fact, I would even argue that there are far better ways to do it if you want a heavy multiplayer-oriented approach.

Peoples are sheeples. Without someone to takes charge and organize things, Hunts would just become pure chaos. History shows overs and overs again that Human Beings rely on leaders to guide thems. If wants big multiplayer activities in FFXIV, then needs to rely on peoples stepping up to takes charge of events.

[Themarvin]

Make it so you can only hunt marks on your own server and not be able to on others would be a good start, have more open windows for S ranks would be a much better solution, it would reduce the traffic between servers as well and lesser complaints about 'early pulls'

EDIT:
Make the Hunt Achievement alongside with eg. Treasure Hunt account wide as well as fates, and possibly a few other things account wide.

It would make it easier as well as being able to get around on different alts and the likes.

[Eraden]

Make it so you can only hunt marks on your own server and not be able to on others would be a good start, have more open windows for S ranks would be a much better solution, it would reduce the traffic between servers as well and lesser complaints about 'early pulls'

EDIT:
Make the Hunt Achievement alongside with eg. Treasure Hunt account wide as well as fates, and possibly a few other things account wide.

It would make it easier as well as being able to get around on different alts and the likes.

Mao like Kurotora ideas. Especially abouts making Hunts achievements account-wide. Mao can't BEGIN to imagine the horror of has to do gazillion S-Rank kills for EACH alt.

[Jojoya]

Peoples are sheeples. Without someone to takes charge and organize things, Hunts would just become pure chaos. History shows overs and overs again that Human Beings rely on leaders to guide thems. If wants big multiplayer activities in FFXIV, then needs to rely on peoples stepping up to takes charge of events.

Just because we chose to step up and organize things for others doesn't mean we have any authority. We don't. SE has not given it to us. Other players will follow us because they chose to, not because they have to.

Those with the reputation of troublemakers aren't sheep. They're independent and in some cases leaders in their own right. But they're definitely not interested in other players telling them what they can or cannot do. They usually know the rules that SE creates better than the general community members.

I do agree with you that it's something that can be fixed player-side via common sense and courtesy within reason. I can't speak for all worlds but generally 5 minutes from spawn to pull has been standard most will agree to. It may be less if the spawn is right next to an aetheryte but still there's some extra time in that 5 minutes in case of congestion delays.

When you get a relay isn't necessarily when the S rank was spawned. It can take a minute or two for relays to filter through linkshells. Many Faloop spawners intentionally withhold the public relay for a minute after spawning. Most Centurio relays are dependent on a player being in the zone with a third party tool or the spawner manually sending the relay. When you get a relay, assume it was spawned 2 minutes ago and get there fast to extend the same courtesy to those who are already waiting as they are extending to you by waiting the extra minute. No one likes having their time wasted by others.

Don't complain in shout chat about early pullers. There is no such thing by the rules of the game. You don't know when something was actually spawned unless you were in the zone when it did or talking in a linkshell with whomever spawned it and they told you.

Most of all, don't give into FOMO. If some does pull earlier than is courteous, as a community we have the ability to buy time for more to arrive by not attacking right away or by getting a single hit in on the target then cease attacking. When you start attacking normally with the puller, you're agreeing with the puller that there was no reason to keep waiting.

Make it so you can only hunt marks on your own server

That will solve nothing. It's amazing how many players forget what things were like prior to world visit.

Was there still congestion? Yes. Because it might be the last spawn for the next 8 hours, more players would show up so they didn't miss out instead of being able to finish what they were already doing then heading to the next spawn cross world 10 minutes later.

Were there still "early pullers"? Yes. Every world had them.

Was there still "sniping" (players who would kill hunts but not report the kill to a tracker)? Of course. Trackers are third party tools. While it's courteous to other hunters to report the kill to one of the trackers, it's not mandatory and some aren't aware the trackers exist or haven't been given the needed permission to report the kill to the tracker (looking at you again, Faloop).

Players need to understand that the Hunt is its own unique style of content. By trying to turn them into FATEs or leves, you're removing content from the game. If the elite hunts aren't your style, there are other ways to get your tomestones. The daily and weekly hunt bills will still get you your hunt currency.

Account wide I can get behind but the idea to limit S ranks to your server would be way more of a negative than a positive.
A large portion of spawned S ranks are spawned by travellers. If you limit it to only being able to get them on your own server then some servers will suffer greatly compared to others.

While I agree with you in general, having it limited to home world only might get part of the community to appreciate the work that spawners go to so there are S ranks to kill. Same with conductors/scouts and trains. It's easy to think there will always be someone willing to go to the effort for everyone else but that's not always the case.

[Eraden]

Just because we chose to step up and organize things for others doesn't mean we have any authority. We don't. SE has not given it to us. Other players will follow us because they chose to, not because they have to.

Mao thinkings Jojoya misunderstandings little bits. Authority is a real thing but it is a social contract made between Conductors and those that choose to follow thems. It does not apply to anyone whats not part of the Hunts Train. Every single Conductor Mao has followed understands this and to best of Mao knowledge, has never tried to push weight with others not within Hunts Trains. Peoples whats part of Hunts Trains willingly cede control to the Conductors whats organizing the events. Therefore, Mao considers all this complainings about presumed authority to be crying abouts smoke and mirrors, at least with respect to Mao experiences. Now if is Conductors on other worlds whats actually trying to pull weight with those nots part of Hunts Trains, then Mao would agree is become real issue.

On matter of Hunts Trains becoming too big because of cross-world travel, Mao thinkings is real issue that needs to be addressed buts try as Mao might, Mao can't think of any game-side fix that could be implemented that would not have other more bad effects. Is why Mao thinkings best solution is still just for peoples to agree to cooperate. Hunts Trains and Hunts in general are player-made content that requires mostly player-made solutions in form of cooperations. Mao still likings Kurotora idea for account-wide achievements though. Is make process of acquiring such achievements much less painfuls.

[Reinha]

Authority is a real thing but it is a social contract made between Conductors and those that choose to follow thems. It does not apply to anyone whats not part of the Hunts Train. Every single Conductor Mao has followed understands this and to best of Mao knowledge, has never tried to push weight with others not within Hunts Trains. Peoples whats part of Hunts Trains willingly cede control to the Conductors whats organizing the events.

Exactly. It's a mutual understanding that taking part in The Hunt in an organized manner will lead to a better experience for both conducters/spawners and the people who just show up to get kills. Personally, I have had a fantastic time with the Faloop community and gained a ton of progress for my achievements whilst doing a tiny bit of spawning for fun.

Anyone who doesn't want to follow a Discord channel's guidelines is free to do so but they should be aware that the Discord community does not owe dozens of S ranks and hundreds of A ranks per day to someone who disrupts the events on purpose. Just as people have the right to kill any mark on sight, a player made community has the right to exclude people who aren't working towards the same goal.

Most of the time the calls to not attack a hunt are done with the assumption that whoever engages too soon is new to hunting and doesn't know what goes behind the scenes to make it possible. And most of the time that assumption is correct. People usually come to the same conclusion that cooperation benefits them a lot more than a single kill.

I'm not a fan of the idea of making hunts home server only, mainly because I don't see the need to have less massively multiplayer content when we can have more.

[Jojoya]

Anyone who doesn't want to follow a Discord channel's guidelines is free to do so but they should be aware that the Discord community does not owe dozens of S ranks and hundreds of A ranks per day to someone who disrupts the events on purpose. Just as people have the right to kill any mark on sight, a player made community has the right to exclude people who aren't working towards the same goal.

Once again, someone from Faloop speaking as if the Faloop community owns the Hunt.

I'm not seeing anyone asking to be part of Faloop or complaining about being excluded from Faloop.

I'm seeing people asking for Faloop members to stop harassing them because they're choosing to Hunt when they want instead of waiting until Faloop is willing to allow them to hunt.

[Jojoya]

I don't own the Hunt and I'm not harassing people though. What a paranoid thing to say especially when you quoted my words "people have the right to kill any mark on sight".

I didn't claim that you think you own the hunt personally or that you harass anyone.

But you have fallen into the Faloop rhetoric trap that tries to convince players that Faloop controls the hunt. Go back and read what you wrote again.

but they should be aware that the Discord community does not owe dozens of S ranks and hundreds of A ranks per day to someone who disrupts the events on purpose.

For a group to "owe" something (whether the debt is real or imaginary), the group would need to have control over that something (which generally means ownership) in order to have the authority to give it to whomever is requesting payment of the claimed debt (again, whether that debt is real or imaginary).

Faloop doesn't own or control the Hunt, the players who disrupt your "events" know that so why pretend they're approaching you trying to claim you owe them hunts? It only makes sense if you believe that Faloop does own/control the hunts in some fashion and that their actions are somehow taking away something that belongs to "your Discord".

If Faloop has "events" that are being disrupted because someone is participating in open world content intended for all players, perhaps Faloop should stop planning events around things it does not own/control.

I'm not seeing anyone be harassed for spawning an S rank themselves and then killing it. Could you show me who you are talking about? Or are you doing that thing again where you speak for people who don't exist?

No one should be getting harassed for any reason period.

It doesn't matter who spawned a hunt. SE has made it clear that a spawner has no rights over what they spawn.

It doesn't matter who pulled a hunt. SE has made it clear that hunts are free to be pulled on sight by anyone who sees them.

Whether the comments directed at those who pull a hunt before others are ready are serious enough to be considered harassment or not, they are most definitely a violation of TOS Prohibited Activities. "Attacking someone for doing something different from what you or others may feel is the norm."

Maybe EU is politer but I've seen some extremely vicious comments directed at someone who pulls in shout chat on the NA worlds. On several occasions the person pulling wasn't even "early" or they had accidently pulled the hunt, not intentionally.

What generates a lot of those comments? The Faloop guidelines posted in the Faloop Discord that gives members the impression that Faloop has some sort of authority over the hunt that it does not have. If Faloop wants to remove a member from Faloop that doesn't follow the Faloop guidelines, that's fine. Those guidelines do not apply to all players in game.

There is also no rule in the game that states one can't complain in shout chat.

Complain about game design? We're free to complain in shout chat about game design.

Complain about another player? There absolutely are rules about that.

https://support.na.square-enix.com/f...&la=1&ret=rule

They had a bad experience with faloop in the past so now they just speak against anything promoting faloop. But yet I've seen them promote centurio hunts which is essentially the same thing.

I wouldn't call it a bad experience. I would call it an enlightening experience.

As far as I could tell, Moo was being honest with me in our discussions. I was disgusted by many of the things said because of the elitism being expressed. No player or group of players should be attempting to control what other players can do. Faloop has crossed that line, including senior members trying to organize other members in reporting a player to get them banned even though that player had done nothing against the rules of the game.

There was also a dose of naivety on Moo's part during one discussion. His original intent for Faloop was it would be used by worlds that had truly unified hunt communities. There's no such thing as a truly unified hunt community, at least not for NA and probably not EU. Human beings are too diverse in nature. There are always those with different opinions and different ways of doing things. There are always the lone wolves that will play on their own terms without regarding for whatever communities might form around them.

I know that Moo was having to rethink what Faloop should be in the wake of world visit and data center travel. The former world hunt communities don't really exist anymore, unified or not. But that was something he was mentioning early last year when Dynamis was trying to get the Faloop-bot (Discord bot, not game bot) for that data center's Discord. I have no idea what decision he might have come to or even if he has.

Believe it or not, I do mention Faloop to players in game just as much as I mention Centurio. Everyone should have a choice about what will work best for them and I have no issues with the actual app. But at least Centurio isn't trying to control what other players do. It simply relays the information it receives and leaves it at that.

If someone wants to report a spawn on Centurio, they just need to have verified their character and self-selected the role for the appropriate channel. If someone wants to report a spawn on Faloop, they have to be vetted by senior Faloop members who will decide if they should be allowed to have reporting permission. Some are more lenient than others and will give such permission just by being asked. Some are more demanding. Either way, the player has to wait until someone else gives them the necessary permission.

So yes, when someone tries to bring up Faloop as if its superior then I am more than happy to share the reality of it. If someone is just a "sheepie" as Mao puts it, then Faloop probably is the better option for them. They don't need to do anything other than show up for a hunt. If you're a control freak, Faloop is the better option for you if you're able to accept the systems Faloop already has in place. If you dislike elitism or just want to hunt on your own terms within what the game allows, you're better off staying away from Faloop.

[Eraden]

Exactly. It's a mutual understanding that taking part in The Hunt in an organized manner will lead to a better experience for both conducters/spawners and the people who just show up to get kills. Personally, I have had a fantastic time with the Faloop community and gained a ton of progress for my achievements whilst doing a tiny bit of spawning for fun.

Anyone who doesn't want to follow a Discord channel's guidelines is free to do so but they should be aware that the Discord community does not owe dozens of S ranks and hundreds of A ranks per day to someone who disrupts the events on purpose. Just as people have the right to kill any mark on sight, a player made community has the right to exclude people who aren't working towards the same goal.

Most of the time the calls to not attack a hunt are done with the assumption that whoever engages too soon is new to hunting and doesn't know what goes behind the scenes to make it possible. And most of the time that assumption is correct. People usually come to the same conclusion that cooperation benefits them a lot more than a single kill.

I'm not a fan of the idea of making hunts home server only, mainly because I don't see the need to have less massively multiplayer content when we can have more.

Problem is, once Hunts Trains get up to 200+ peoples, A-Ranks die within second or two of engagement. This leaves many peoples whats part of the Hunts Train without any reward because thems not has enough times to tag A-Rank. There really is practical limit to size of Hunts Train. Is why Mao suggesting that peoples should try stick to own worlds UNLESS thems worlds is sparsely populateds. If that is case, then Mao welcomes them to come hunts with Mao.

[ironbutterfly]

Make it so you can only hunt marks on your own server and not be able to on others would be a good start, have more open windows for S ranks would be a much better solution, it would reduce the traffic between servers as well and lesser complaints about 'early pulls'

EDIT:
Make the Hunt Achievement alongside with eg. Treasure Hunt account wide as well as fates, and possibly a few other things account wide.

It would make it easier as well as being able to get around on different alts and the likes.

Please no it would need to be on a case by case basis, as someone that conducts on Materia this would make trains on certain worlds non-existent.
I do wish A ranks had a bit more lethality to them, I know we're end of expansion and with the gear creep they just aren't as brutal as early EW.

As for S ranks, I pull them as soon as I spawn them. If you're in zone or on world you may know about them otherwise catch them next time.