The Trinity System in PVP

[RyanCousland]

Was gonna wait till 7.1 to see what fresh hell pvp has in store but given that this thread is still going I'll throw my opinion in the ring.

I appreciate that the Op is addressing the different types of pvp in regards to their grievance as most who post forget or dismiss them.

1.) SHB FL was the best iteration of pvp large-scale for role based method

A.) the classes were better balanced with about an even amount of aoe & single target abilities as well as their own selectable role skills

B.) The maps never required any change as drastic as what is being experienced(a bit off topic but still worth mentioning)

C.) Any issues with a certain class (drg piercing talon, which wasnt that big of an issue, or healers having too much healing) could have been fixed with a simple potency reduction, instead any change to class or its abilities is now more difficult to balance considering they have more than one effect and requires a change in other abilities to compensate.

D.) If the Devs spent as much time on SHB pvp as they are now or instead of developing CC or holding off untill the former issues were resolved then most problems would've been solved by now (the main cause of the problems)

E.) I'm not a healer main so I can't comment on whether the value of a healer in the current pvp is diminished or not but I can say going as tank in shb FL I enjoyed my role as well as the healers that could rescue me, I don't see why a large-scale mode shouldn't incorporate more of the trinity system considering any issues wouldve been easier to resolve, while it's anecdotal ive been in matches with an entire healer alliance and still lost.

2.) EW CC is the best version of small-scale pvp despite not knowing how it would've worked with feast (TDM)

A.) Ques are faster, whether this is due to the battle pass or the removal of role restrictions is uncertain.

B.) Roles are not as impactful towards achieving a win, despite certain role classes being somewhat more advantageous than others (war vs pld, whm vs sch , mnk vs every dps, except drg maybe, ect)

C.) Classes are beyond unique and interesting, even though they're screwing up the management

3.) RW, idk as I rarely play it but should be added to daily roulette challenge, not relevant but needs to be said

The only solutions I can think of is to separate large-scale and small-scale toolkit, however this will never happen or a Separate FL mode(s) with smaller numbers (I'm not too convinced this will work)

[Valence]

1) Agreed partially, ShB FLs were better balanced because the pvp design didn't clash as much between the arena mode and FLs, unlike in the current iteration. In a way it dodged a bullet because SB FLs, which were based on the same pvp model and design, were an absolute hell hole for different reasons (no medkits, over reliance on healers, imbalanced jobs for FLs like you'd think current meta is child's play in comparison, etc). However, role based was already a fantasy on its own in shb. Healers weren't needed as much anymore due to the dramatically increased pace and burst damage and most of the healing done by personal medkits (introduced to prevent over reliance on healers in both modes, where they carried 95% of the weight of the team). Tanks tanked more, but that's about it. The current ones haven't changed that much comparatively except on the things they can pull off with LB.

Maps had the exact same issues and have had them since they changed the mount speed back in ShB, which favored death-balling incredibly more (not saying it was fun to spend 2min to go back to the fray after dying before that though, there was pros and cons). Seal rock was still totally imbalanced spawn wise, Secure was still a punt off the cliff fiesta (I kinda liked it, be it in SB, ShB or EW tbh), Secure still suffered from zero rng which ended up in the exact same games over and over, Shatter was already a mindless ice licking interspaced by blob meatgrinders in the middle when there was no ice up and also played exactly like that with the current pvp iteration before it got reworked. Onsal playstyle hasn't changed one iota either.

2) Queues are faster because it's popular and intuitive/easy to get into, unlike feast, which had insanely high skill floor and a not so high skill ceiling.

[VictorSpoils]

Only foreseeable solution to that is to remove the elixir or just remove Recuperate.

[RyanCousland]

Only foreseeable solution to that is to remove the elixir or just remove Recuperate.

while it would increase the value for healers it would also cause problems of an over dependence on them as well, granted im not a healer main so i cant say if that would be desirable or not, i will say that a separation of kits would allow more abilities to be available for the mode that would need that separation, those abilities i imagine would probably reflect the class/role so in other words healers would get more healing , tanks more defensive , dps more offensive skills

[Valence]

Only foreseeable solution to that is to remove the elixir or just remove Recuperate.

Then you'd completely break the system on top of going back to all the woes of the past.

[Themarvin]

Being a PvP tank never had the game-deciding impact of being a PvP healer back when dedicated healers were a thing. Current tanks also aren't all equal on mitigation, like Warrior is actually squishy and plays around Primal Rend stuns and DRK outside of Salted Earth is a lifesteal DPS.

All tanks can be nuked fast though if you catch them without their defensive up and stun them before Guard. Well, in Crystalline Conflict at least. Many jobs have mitigation besides Guard anyhow, so thats not special to tanks.

Long story short - dedicated Healers had game-deciding impact, dedicated tanks did not. Literally not comparable.

Well been in all sorts of PvP's you should skip the tankness as well in it as it is... and let it be player vs player more, else it is metas one way or another, removing the roles entirely would make it easier to make balance to the system as it is.

[Mistress_Irika]

Only foreseeable solution to that is to remove the elixir or just remove Recuperate.

Are we trying to make killing even easier? Those are the vibes I'm getting.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Then you'd completely break the system on top of going back to all the woes of the past.

Pre-5.1 Potion era pvp with complete reliance on healers like the good old days, let's gooooooo (please don't D: )

[Sinstrel]

I would be very surprised if we didn't see a full re-work of Frontline being addressed in the upcoming Live Letter.

Yoshi did mention that they were going to be introducing new/more PvP modes in the future when they announced Crystal Casino back in 6.1.

[Astralrisk]

Yoshi did mention that they were going to be introducing new/more PvP modes in the future when they announced Crystal Casino back in 6.1.

I hope they announce that BLU Battle Royal they mentioned in an interview a while back.