Direct Hit is just diet Crit

[Supersnow845]

BRD & DNC depend on proc for a significant portion of their kit. Don't forget about MCH. This sets up all the physical ranged classes to utilize procs. Yet other classes could benefit too. BLM has Thundercloud & Firestarter, RDM has Stone and Fire for resource generation. WHM has freecure. They tried giving AST that enhanced benefic, but no one cares because it's locked behind basic benefic. And these are just what's already in the game.

I'd argue that there are many other classes that COULD benefit from a proc mechanic that could shortcut some of their rotation or add a strategic niche for more creative synergies in gameplay. Especially beneficial for classes that otherwise lack complexity. Before people start complaining about homogenization, not every class has to utilize procs for the same purposes. Possibilities for proc effects could literally include anything. To name a few beyond just damage, mobility, duration extension, resource generation, cast time reduction, cooldown reset, shields, vulnerability, mitigation, heals, aoe, interrupts, and status effects in general, because in my honest and unwavering opinion, some of them could really come back through proc mechanics without breaking the game (slows, stuns, and binds).

Why are you acting like freecure is any more remotely useful than critfic, they are equally as useless as each other and freecure still bring in the game is functionally only for coils which critfic really isn’t much worse at achieving

Regardless shields, heals and mitigations should never rely on procs, lady of crowns is already bad enough

[TabrisOmbrelame]

BRD & DNC depend on proc for a significant portion of their kit. Don't forget about MCH. This sets up all the physical ranged classes to utilize procs. Yet other classes could benefit too. BLM has Thundercloud & Firestarter, RDM has Stone and Fire for resource generation. WHM has freecure. They tried giving AST that enhanced benefic, but no one cares because it's locked behind basic benefic. And these are just what's already in the game.

I'd argue that there are many other classes that COULD benefit from a proc mechanic that could shortcut some of their rotation or add a strategic niche for more creative synergies in gameplay. Especially beneficial for classes that otherwise lack complexity. Before people start complaining about homogenization, not every class has to utilize procs for the same purposes. Possibilities for proc effects could literally include anything. To name a few beyond just damage, mobility, duration extension, resource generation, cast time reduction, cooldown reset, shields, vulnerability, mitigation, heals, aoe, interrupts, and status effects in general, because in my honest and unwavering opinion, some of them could really come back through proc mechanics without breaking the game (slows, stuns, and binds).

MCH doesn't have procs anymore since the rework. I forgot about BLM and RDM tho, but still. WHM and AST aren't even worth mentionning for that particular mecanic.

If you make all classes works on proc, you will have a huge problem overall. Any benefits you get from procs you mentionned will only lead at huge difference inside each fight. If your team is terribly unlucky you could just not kill a Savage boss just because nobody got the correct proc at the correct time. This is a punishing mecanic by sheer luck for skilled player who will miss a kill just because they are really unlucky. And if SE do that and recalculate the DPS meters to kill the boss, this could also lead to skip of mecanics because the team is incredibly lucky.

BRD, DNC, BLM and RDM should just have their procs removed and reworked completely imo. They need to rework some of their skills so they are actually more playable for a huge portion of player. I know their is talented BRD/BLM/DNC/RDM player outhere but to be honest, i've never encountered a really good bard player. Bard isn't an easy class at all from what I've seen because there is too much thing you have to take care about. Duration of DoT, Number of stack for PP before using EA, Using EA on CD by checking if you have to use PP before or immediatly after, making sure you have a song played at all time, using Apex at 80 or more each time and if possible inside the 2 Minute burst, etc etc... In order to play a bard perfectly, this is hard, and many player just don't bother because procs make the class not rigid at all. So you have to time perfectly what you have in order to be inside the 2 minute burst. The actual Proc version of the bard is really bad with this, cause if you are unlucky, you will have a crappy burst window.

Using procs on anything actually will lead to a complete rework of the game, which will probabbly never happen unless SE is forced to.

[eldritchAvatar]

MCH doesn't have procs anymore since the rework. I forgot about BLM and RDM tho, but still. WHM and AST aren't even worth mentionning for that particular mecanic.

If you make all classes works on proc, you will have a huge problem overall. Any benefits you get from procs you mentionned will only lead at huge difference inside each fight. If your team is terribly unlucky you could just not kill a Savage boss just because nobody got the correct proc at the correct time. This is a punishing mecanic by sheer luck for skilled player who will miss a kill just because they are really unlucky. And if SE do that and recalculate the DPS meters to kill the boss, this could also lead to skip of mecanics because the team is incredibly lucky.

BRD, DNC, BLM and RDM should just have their procs removed and reworked completely imo. They need to rework some of their skills so they are actually more playable for a huge portion of player.

Using procs on anything actually will lead to a complete rework of the game, which will probabbly never happen unless SE is forced to.

I get it, you fear change. I argue that DPS meters to kill should be calculated without the influence of procs. Whereas Procs (and tbh Crits) are bonus luck-based effects, as in there is an inherent variance in their appearance and function. Requiring the player to be lucky to kill is counter to the event of being lucky to begin with. Luck, and therefore procs, should be an opportunity, not a necessity.

Listen, I thought DNC and BRD were too proc heavy too, but people playing those classes *like* procs. I do feel that focus in the class should include more thematic elements. Like if DNC shifted more to weaving and rhythm, or if bard went deeper into the buffs.

Black Mage is perfect in that its proc mechanic doesn't overpower the other elements of its kit. It does have a force-proc mechanic, and the Procs are all instant cast. It makes it perfect to use in between casts of an ability with virtually no lost time. This enables players to do actions at double time, which fits better into the window of damage buffs and cast time buffs (ley lines). You might see more investment into Lucky DH variations if the thunder proc rate could be enhanced

Dancer goes way into proc-of-the-proc, which frankly no one can sell me on. However its characteristic weaving of fan dance between its combo adds double-time with the damage. A lucky hit version of DH would enable the proc flow to increase. My wish? give em access to all 4 abilities and make the combo order randomly determined but telegraphed in advance with something similar to an arrow. And make fan dance proc off of successes. Like thematically dancers are always counting rhythm. One-and-two-and-three-and-four-and. Usually in 8 counts.

I can't speak for Bard.

[Sylvain]

BRD, DNC, BLM and RDM should just have their procs removed and reworked completely imo. They need to rework some of their skills so they are actually more playable for a huge portion of player.

BLM being hard has nothing to do with the proc. You have 85% chance to get a proc by sheer luck and you're suppose, usually, to put dynamisation to reach 100% so really, the proc is a non issue.

BRD/DNC/RDM are proc based, but the proc chance is so high that over an entire fight it's totally normalised.
RDM combo cost rework also helped a lot as to avoid over/under capping by basically allowing you to have up to twice as much as single combo.
JoltII vs Earth/Fire is only 20 potency and 1 extra mana point. If you properly use swift cast and acceleration, you don't cast that many JoltII and an unlucky run vs a lucky one would be as trivial as having an extra crit+dh on 1-2 skills over the course of a fight. Sure, it would change a few things (especially if you aim at 100%perf) but as this point, you might want to also remove crit entirely because this would have a bigger impact overall.

Like they're fine. Procs aren't the problem on those jobs.

[dspguy]

There's an entire community out there for theorycrafting. The moment they change something, they'll do their testing and figure out the new meta. If stacking determination is suddenly better than crit and increases your DPS by 0.1%, people will dump crit and go with determination instead.

Same thing when they change anything. People figure out what the new best gear/rotation/melds/strategy and everyone mimics that.

I almost miss the early days of MMOs when all of this information wasn't readily at your fingertips. There was more mystery to the game. But, who am I kidding? I don't have that kind of time anymore.

[eldritchAvatar]

There's an entire community out there for theorycrafting. The moment they change something, they'll do their testing and figure out the new meta. If stacking determination is suddenly better than crit and increases your DPS by 0.1%, people will dump crit and go with determination instead.

Same thing when they change anything. People figure out what the new best gear/rotation/melds/strategy and everyone mimics that.

I almost miss the early days of MMOs when all of this information wasn't readily at your fingertips. There was more mystery to the game. But, who am I kidding? I don't have that kind of time anymore.

This is what I feel deep in my heart is the next evolution of gameplay. Strategic diversity. It doesn't matter to me when someone says "best in slot". They very concept of 'best in slot" should be avoided at all costs. It instead should be, what is best to suit the needs of the situation. Fights that repeat one standard pattern you have to memorize are cool, but like... other things can be difficult too. When is something a unique advantage? When is that advantage a liability?

Lately raids seem to be investing heavily in rote memorization. The kit of each class at present is configured to support balance in ability to complete the singular objective of mostly stationary combat. If we had enemies that were constantly on the move. It would make situations where you had to fight and race at the same time. How would each class be able to adapt? Like what if sub roles were formally acknowledged? Wouldn't that revolutionize everything too?

You already see it a glimpse with dungeons. Having the tank rush through while the healer blows everything to keep the horde from annihilating them. That's the part of dungeons that I enjoy actually. Basic enemies aren't just the flavor text for a boss fight. It's a test of ability knowledge and speed of execution. If you had to chase or kite the boss for the entire fight, that would be SO COOL. This shift is just one of many that would enable more possibility, not less. Balance should be merely the scaffold of strategic combat. Everyone wants equality, but like... there's room for innovation. Some people will be pissed off if the sun comes up in the morning. Ideas should be refined by disagreement.

What about if a boss tries to escape and regens out of combat? Or if you had to fight it in two very distant places? How would each class accomplish that? Which classes would excel, which would lag behind?

What if some mages had more extreme range? Like 40 yalms or so and you had to hunt them down? You already see players having to deal with this in PvP. Pop the healer, try to not get pinned down by the tank, don't let the enemy DPS reach the back line. There's more than one way to deal with a situation, we shouldn't corral everyone into the same strategy or build.

[DrWho2010]

Strategic diversity. It doesn't matter to me when someone says "best in slot". They very concept of 'best in slot" should be avoided at all costs. It instead should be, what is best to suit the needs of the situation. Fights that repeat one standard pattern you have to memorize are cool, but like... other things can be difficult too. When is something a unique advantage? When is that advantage a liability?

The game's encounters would have to be redesigned from a fundamental level for a "best in situation" scenario instead of a "best in slot".

Lately raids seem to be investing heavily in rote memorization.

Lately? Rote memorization of an encounter is all this game has ever been. Nothing really is truly "random" in this game in this aspect.

The kit of each class at present is configured to support balance in ability to complete the singular objective of mostly stationary combat. If we had enemies that were constantly on the move. It would make situations where you had to fight and race at the same time. How would each class be able to adapt? Like what if sub roles were formally acknowledged? Wouldn't that revolutionize everything too?

I dunno where you've been. What game do you think you have been playing? This is how it's always been. This is fundamentally how the devs have wanted to design this game. I don't see them changing that anytime soon.

You already see it a glimpse with dungeons. Having the tank rush through while the healer blows everything to keep the horde from annihilating them. That's the part of dungeons that I enjoy actually.

This is the most boring-est part of dungeons.

If you had to chase or kite the boss for the entire fight, that would be SO COOL.

That would be lame, everyone would be complaining about loss of uptime and MUH DEEPS.

Everyone wants equality, but like... there's room for innovation. Some people will be pissed off if the sun comes up in the morning. Ideas should be refined by disagreement.

You'd better bribe a lot of devs then to change how they think, esp Yoshi-P.

we shouldn't corral everyone into the same strategy or build.

This idea that somehow everyone should be special doesn't fit into the way this game is currently built. Go play a single player game if you want this kind of variety. Even then most people playing will just look up the fastest/best way to play anyways there too. lol

The ONLY THING that matters in this game right now when it comes to encounters is PLAYER SKILL. Dying to mechanics? You're not good enough. Hitting enrage? you're not good enough. No unique build should be able to compensate for that. That's the way the devs have always thought about this game.

[eldritchAvatar]

The game's encounters would have to be redesigned from a fundamental level for a "best in situation" scenario instead of a "best in slot".

Did I stutter?

Lately? Rote memorization of an encounter is all this game has ever been. Nothing really is truly "random" in this game in this aspect.

Point still stands. Adaptation is growth. The existing parameters only challenge specific forms of intelligence.

I dunno where you've been. What game do you think you have been playing? This is how it's always been. This is fundamentally how the devs have wanted to design this game. I don't see them changing that anytime soon.

They Certainly Can.

This is the most boring-est part of dungeons.

SHOULD IT BE?

That would be lame, everyone would be complaining about loss of uptime and MUH DEEPS.

Not if other aspects of the game shift to compensate. (Range increases, Slidecast windows, movement abilities)

You'd better bribe a lot of devs then to change how they think, esp Yoshi-P.

I'm sure developers are trying to combat stagnation, but if they want description down to the minutiae I will give it.

This idea that somehow everyone should be special doesn't fit into the way this game is currently built. Go play a single player game if you want this kind of variety. Even then most people playing will just look up the fastest/best way to play anyways there too. lol

I'm not saying people have to be "special". I'm saying this game is prescriptive about fine tuning via materia. One singular advantage (crit), and many other negligible effects. If the devs made other stats less USELESS, then we'd have to actually make smarter decisions. ALSO Precedent of multiplayer games with strategic diversity: Monster Hunter World, Warframe, Destiny 2, WoW, Diablo 4, Borderlands 3. Go find another thread if you want to be this petty.

The ONLY THING that matters in this game right now when it comes to encounters is PLAYER SKILL. Dying to mechanics? You're not good enough. Hitting enrage? you're not good enough. No unique build should be able to compensate for that. That's the way the devs have always thought about this game.

No, the only thing that matters is player knowledge. Bosses will one shot you, and it's not because you're good, it's because they're designed to one shot you. Figuring that out is the first step, everything else is about being able to move and remember. If you can meet those conditions, the rest should be up to the comforts of your own design.

[RyuuZero]

I like the addition of Direct Hit, I mean a Big Number that goes now with !! instead of !, that's Cool.
But as a Samurai Player with the guaranteed Crit without Kaiten we only really do the lvl50 Rotation for 40lvls. They could've make Kaiten turn the following Weaponskill do Direct Hit Damage, thus rewarding good resource management with every Big Attack also doing Big looking Damage but, they just removed it and now we have Kenki to spam Shinten :/

[mallleable]

The changes to stats I would like to see

Critical hit rating now only affects critical hit chance, how hard crits becomes standardized, critical hit damage is now indicated by two exclamation points (crit!!)

Skill speed, and spell speed get merged into a singular haste stat

Determination is kinda boring, but should more or less stay the same by providing bonus damage, and healing potency

Direct hit should increase the potency of critical hits for DPS jobs only, visually bold direct hits, and critical direct hits get removed

Tenacity should be buffed so its damage multiplier is equal to determination as well as increasing its mitigation bonus

Piety needs an overhaul. Piety should provide bonus damage equal to determination, and should reduce the cast, and recast of any spell with a cure potency attached to it including damage spells that have healing attached to them, and works on top of haste