We need more HARROWING HELL

[Oizen]

All the ridiculous sustain just needs to be reeled back. Warrior and Paladin can't be replacing healers.
Dealing with HH as a Dark knight vs dealing with HH as Warrior while also doing less damage than Warrior also puts into perspective how hard they went on the powercreep.
Half of Dark knight's toolkit does not interact with HH.

There is really no reason that Heart of Light or Dark Missionary should be locked to magic damage only.
The game wouldn't fall apart if these two jobs had 10% more mitigation in all content.

[GoatOfWar]

There is really no reason that Heart of Light or Dark Missionary should be locked to magic damage only.
The game wouldn't fall apart if these two jobs had 10% more mitigation in all content.

I wouldn't mind some flavor, like HoL giving a HoT and DM giving extra shields, but it's kinda funny that HoL and DM are exact carbon copies when Shake it is arbitrarily allowed to be a better Veil.

[Valence]

There is really no reason that Heart of Light or Dark Missionary should be locked to magic damage only.
The game wouldn't fall apart if these two jobs had 10% more mitigation in all content.

Sure, let's remove more constraints and flavor from every job and delete all thinking that goes behind mitigating which types of attacks. Then people are gonna complain jobs are dumb, and that we already are drowning in a sea of mitigation tools.

I'm strictly opposed to that kind of thinking for the very same reason I made that post. I want more tactics, not less. If there is a problem of tank balance, removing battle system specificity isn't gonna fix it. Because past a point, we can just remove damage types while we're at it. That's basically what it boils down to.

Add more damage type shenanigans SE, into job toolkits and encounters, please.

[Jeeqbit]

Sure, let's remove more constraints and flavor from every job and delete all thinking that goes behind mitigating which types of attacks. Then people are gonna complain jobs are dumb, and that we already are drowning in a sea of mitigation tools.

It's SE responding to requests like the one you quoted that have got us where we are. The removal of physical mitigation caused Raw Intuition and Sheltron to be like using Rampart. The removal of STR and INT down nuances on different tank combos was replaced with the generic Reprisal role action.

Don't get me wrong, I like Reprisal. I think it's a really great, versatile ability. So I'm not saying SE shouldn't make changes to Heart of Light or Dark Missionary. But we should remember that it is exactly these requests that resulted in the very tank homogenization that people subsequently complain about.

[Lyth]

Sure, let's remove more constraints and flavor from every job and delete all thinking that goes behind mitigating which types of attacks.

You could only make that argument if that was the standard to which all jobs were held to. Shake it off and Divine Veil are both on the same recast but work on all types of damage and also provide a bonus heal effect. Passage of Arms works on all damage types as well.

If you want a Physical Ranged parallel, Tactician/Troubadour/Shield Samba are all interchangeable and work on all damage types. They also, amusingly, happen to have the same damage reduction, recast, and duration as Heart of Light and Dark Missionary (which are the magic damage only tank actions). Dismantle likewise works on all damage types without regard to aesthetic considerations.

I think good design should avoid homogeneity, but it's also important to be fair. If you have two actions that you can compare on a word for word basis and one is mathematically superior to the other, then you have a balance problem. Partial homogeneity is a greater flaw than complete homogeneity. In an ideal design, there should be enough differences and trade-offs that it's impossible to make a direct comparison where you can say that one is generally better than the other.

[Valence]

You could only make that argument if that was the standard to which all jobs were held to. Shake it off and Divine Veil are both on the same recast but work on all types of damage and also provide a bonus heal effect. Passage of Arms works on all damage types as well.

I think good design should avoid homogeneity, but it's also important to be fair. If you have two actions that you can compare on a word for word basis and one is mathematically superior to the other, then you have a balance problem. Partial homogeneity is a greater flaw than complete homogeneity. In an ideal design, there should be enough differences and trade-offs that it's impossible to make a direct comparison where you can say that one is generally better than the other.

I'll just point at what I wrote above: "If there is a problem of tank balance, removing battle system specificity isn't gonna fix it."

Fix the balance instead of hurting the battlesystem intricacies or what's left of it.

If you want a Physical Ranged parallel, Tactician/Troubadour/Shield Samba are all interchangeable and work on all damage types. They also, amusingly, happen to have the same damage reduction, recast, and duration as Heart of Light and Dark Missionary (which are the magic damage only tank actions). Dismantle likewise works on all damage types without regard to aesthetic considerations.

Don't get me started in the rphys homogenization. Troubadour used to be different and actually even changed form depending on the song being played. How awesome was it? But no, we can't have nice things. Granted, tactician and shield samba weren't a thing yet for mitigation since it was Stormblood. MCH's equivalent was Dismantle. I also want to point out that MCH already got that treatment between HW and SB, since the job actually had Dismantle for physical damage and Rend Mind for magical damage, and both got baked into SB Dismantle affecting all damage. I liked as a ranged physical having to support the team by selecting the proper mitigators and debuffs to apply.

It's an endless series of dumbing down the battle system.

[Supersnow845]

You could only make that argument if that was the standard to which all jobs were held to. Shake it off and Divine Veil are both on the same recast but work on all types of damage and also provide a bonus heal effect. Passage of Arms works on all damage types as well.

If you want a Physical Ranged parallel, Tactician/Troubadour/Shield Samba are all interchangeable and work on all damage types. They also, amusingly, happen to have the same damage reduction, recast, and duration as Heart of Light and Dark Missionary (which are the magic damage only tank actions). Dismantle likewise works on all damage types without regard to aesthetic considerations.

I think good design should avoid homogeneity, but it's also important to be fair. If you have two actions that you can compare on a word for word basis and one is mathematically superior to the other, then you have a balance problem. Partial homogeneity is a greater flaw than complete homogeneity. In an ideal design, there should be enough differences and trade-offs that it's impossible to make a direct comparison where you can say that one is generally better than the other.

Which is directly caused by them overbuffing DV/SIO, the answer to this is not to now buff DM/HOL it’s to realise that they buffed the two shield two far and return them to their old effect

[Oizen]

Sure, let's remove more constraints and flavor from every job and delete all thinking that goes behind mitigating which types of attacks. Then people are gonna complain jobs are dumb, and that we already are drowning in a sea of mitigation tools.

I'm strictly opposed to that kind of thinking for the very same reason I made that post. I want more tactics, not less. If there is a problem of tank balance, removing battle system specificity isn't gonna fix it. Because past a point, we can just remove damage types while we're at it. That's basically what it boils down to.

Add more damage type shenanigans SE, into job toolkits and encounters, please.

The flavor of the game hinges on two tanks having raidwide mitigations that aren't applicable to most content, and one tank having a raidwide mit thats is applicable to all content, but also stronger than the raidwide mit of the previous two mentioned tanks?

what

[GoatOfWar]

The flavor of the game hinges on two tanks having raidwide mitigations that aren't applicable to most content, and one tank having a raidwide mit thats is applicable to all content, but also stronger than the raidwide mid of the previous two mentioned tanks?

what

Like i said, people want the jobs they don't play to be defined by jank.
A job being universally good in every single situation without any jank is only acceptable when it's the job they play.
They want their job to be different from yours, so yours has to be worse.

Imagine if Warrior could lose dps from external mits like Dark knight does, that would be fixed in 1 patch.

[TaleraRistain]

Yeah but maybe not just one type of damage only maybe? So half the tanks don't have to sit there with thumbs up our butts with only Reprisal to offer.

My static managed it without Tank LB3 by moving around some other places we did magical resist so healers could put more into HH and I liked that aspect of being a team effort.