House Auto Demo'd when I've entered Recently

[LianaThorne]

How many players are going to think they're going to need provide proof they entered their house on X day when simply entering is supposed to reset the demo timer?

This is literally why there isn't proof.

People, for some reason, expect others to predict the future and know that they should be recording their screen because they'll be losing their house in the near future.

Like....make it make sense.

[Raven2014]

...

And you can tell me another 100 stories from another 100 of your friends and it still won't change anything, it still will be "just take my word for it".

This is literally why there isn't proof.

People, for some reason, expect others to predict the future and know that they should be recording their screen because they'll be losing their house in the near future.

Like....make it make sense.

The difficulty of procuring the proof will never be the reason to lessen the burden of proof. And you know why it makes sense? Because that's exactly how it works in real life, that's why it's called the "burden" of proof. It does not make any difference what the "excuse" is, and do you know why?

Because at the end of the day you are asking people to believe in a very serious accusation/problem with nothing beyond "trust me bro". You know what doesn't make sense, THAT's what doesn't make sense.

[Jojoya]

And you can tell me another 100 stories from another 100 of your friends and it still won't change anything, it still will be "just take my word for it".



The difficulty of procuring the proof will never be the reason to lessen the burden of proof. And you know why it makes sense? Because that's exactly how it works in real life, that's why it's called the "burden" of proof. It does not make any difference what the "excuse" is, and do you know why?

Because at the end of the day you are asking people to believe in a very serious accusation/problem with nothing beyond "trust me bro". You know what doesn't make sense, THAT's what doesn't make sense.

Expecting people to know they're going to experience a specific and rare problem in the future so they need to collect proof now also does not make sense.

[Raven2014]

Expecting people to know they're going to experience a specific and rare problem in the future so they need to collect proof now also does not make sense.

That's a you problem. No matter how unreasonable or senseless you think my insistent of proof is, I can assure you your insistent of people just taking your word on a serious issue without offering a shred of evidence is even a far more unreasonable request, with the "sense" meter pointing squarely at zero. In another word, even if my request doesn't make a lot of sense, it still make several magnitude more sense than yours.

If you can find a court where "difficulty of proof" is allowed to substitute "the necessity of proof", point it to me and I'll reconsider. Otherwise I can not fundamentally agree with you.

In fact, this conversation reminds me of a one of my favorite piece literature they taught decades ago in school: it's called the Crucible.

[LianaThorne]

That's a you problem. No matter how unreasonable or senseless you think my insistent of proof is, I can assure you your insistent of people just taking your word on a serious issue without offering a shred of evidence is even a far more unreasonable request, with the "sense" meter pointing squarely at zero. In another word, even if my request doesn't make a lot of sense, it still make several magnitude more sense than yours.

If you can find a court where "difficulty of proof" is allowed to substitute "the necessity of proof", point it to me and I'll reconsider. Otherwise I can not fundamentally agree with you.

In fact, this conversation reminds me of a one of my favorite piece literature they taught decades ago in school: it's called the Crucible.

Peace and love but I feel like you're taking this way too seriously with all of the courtroom comparisons.
At best case it's a mistake on the part of the OP, at worst it's a housing glitch in a video game.

[Raven2014]

Peace and love but I feel like you're taking this way too seriously with all of the courtroom comparisons.

Maybe I am, maybe I am not. But isn't it all the same? If you want people to believe, you need to provide proof. Regardless of how and where it happens, a court is simply the crystallization of that concept so it's just a good reference point. I can assure you, even if it's just random passing accusation on the street, if you want to make me believe I would ask for the samething: show me the proof.

At best case it's a mistake on the part of the OP, at worst it's a housing glitch in a video game.

I mean ... it's fairly obvious the conversation had gone beyond that scope. Even in your previous reply it doesn't seem you were talking about this particular case. Both you and other person are trying to insist on an issue that never have a proof, and implying asking for proof doesn't make sense. If disagreeing with that means I'm being too serious, then yeah I guess I'm being too serious ...

And I have no issue with that. I also don't like to endorse hearsay and misinformation, so there's also that.

[Jojoya]

I also don't like to endorse hearsay and misinformation, so there's also that.

Yet I'm not offering hearsay. It's not "a friend told me a friend of a friend had this happen".

These were situations I was personally involved in as a tenant. I was the one letting my friends know that the pending demolition notifications were still active. I watched one enter his house and still had the pending demo notification until he interacted with his Mender. I know the time frame between when the other friend had last entered their house and when the notification popped up on my alt.

If I was called as a witness in a court of law, would my testimony be dismissed as hearsay? No, it wouldn't because I would be recounting my personal experience.

Also, what actual misinformation is being posted? No one is denying that entering a house should reset the demo timer. We're saying that there appears to be a bug so that the entry that should reset the timer doesn't always get registered properly. Does the bug happen as the player enters? Probably, that seemed to be the case with my first friend. Does the bug maybe happen because SE has to rollback data on the housing server for some reason and the backup used occurred before the owner entered their house but the rollback occurred a short time after? That's always a possibility.

The real misinformation would be to state that entering a house you own will reset the demo timer 100% guaranteed. Because I can personally attest that is not the case. I had also been a skeptic about the bug being real back before I saw it happen to the first friend. I most definitely am a skeptic no longer.

This isn't a court of law. We're not accusing anyone of a criminal act. We are pointing out that something is going wrong far too often to too many different players in a system intended to mitigate a problem that SE created with their poor content design in the first place, and that it is harming the game experience of those players who are impacted by it.

My friends got lucky. They had me for a tenant and I'm checking my Estate timer regularly because I run the workshops for the FCs we're in. I was able to let them know there was a problem and confirm it was corrected.

Not every player has a tenant. Not everything thinks to check the Estate timers because unless you're running a workshop or trying to buy/relocate a house there is zero need to.

Maybe one of these days, someone paranoid about possibly losing their house because they don't enter it often will start taking screenshots and get hit by the bug. Then there will be some evidence to satisfy you.

It's still asinine to demand evidence when the evidence could only be obtained by either being psychic and knowing in advance it was going to happen, or by traveling to the past.

Nope. It's harder to show with screenshots than video but it's theoretically doable. It would require the date, nameplate of the character, proof of being inside the house, proof of being the owner and the timer showing (if it's not been refreshed).

On PC, the screenshot file name is the date and time that the screenshot is taken. I vaguely remember reading that FFXIV has a hidden watermark system similar to WoW's that repeats the information though I could be wrong on that.

The problem of proving that the house shown in the screenshot is their house is more problematic. If the player catches it before the house demo's, that's easier since the furnishings and placement should still match. If it's after demolition, SE might take it seriously if the furnishings in the screenshot are included in the furnishings transferred to the Resident Caretaker. Or they might not.

But still, the player has to know or at least suspect in advance that there's going to be a problem and that a screenshot may be needed. The only ones likely to think about it are those who are already keeping track of when they last entered to make sure a house they aren't using doesn't get demolished. Normal players will probably never have the thought enter their minds.