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  1. #1
    Player
    Sebazy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    3,468
    Character
    Sebazy Spiritwalker
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90

    The grand return of Cleric Stance, with a twist

    So I randomly thought of this last night and it struck me as an interesting concept so I thought I'd chuck it down here:

    • First off, we apply a flat DPS reduction of healers via the MND to potency calculation by 30%.

    • Then we add the Cleric Stance toggle back in, instead of flipping MND/INT as before, it simply increases damage done by 30%.

    • Instead of nerfing your healing potency into the floor, it causes your next healing GCD to 'fizzle' (Yes I am digging up an Everquest term for this). Fizzling a heal this way removes the Cleric Stance effect in the process and starts a 10 second cooldown before you can recast Cleric Stance.

    • Fizzling a spell causes a 1 second GCD reset and causes the spell to consume no resources or gauge.

    • It's important to note that unless you fizzle, Cleric Stance has no recast time, you can drop it, cast a Medica II or Lily, then recast straight back into Cleric akin to how it used to be.

    What's a fizzle you ask? Simply put, it would cause the heal to fail to cast (and in our case, it would also not use any resources, gauge or MP) and would trigger the GCD for a briefer moment than a normal cast akin to DNC steps.

    Basically, if you try to use a GCD heal under Cleric, it effectively delays or stutters your next heal by a second but ensures that your following heal comes out at full potency rather than quietly allowing you to continue throwing out ineffective heals. Jarring enough to be noticeable but unlikely to actually make or break anything outside of panic situations in Savage tier content.

    It's important to note that this ONLY applies to GCD heals, oGCDs function as normal and are unaffected. This achieves 2 goals:

    It encourages actual use of our oGCD kits even if the content doesn't really warrant their use. And secondly, it brings back the old gameplay loop SCHs enjoyed in 2.x-3.x where you would spend as much time with cleric up as possible trying to juggle Eos healing and lustrates to maximise uptime, except this time everyone can play that game now. Oh and said game doesn't cause an embarrassing wipe if you queue for a dungeon whilst half asleep and not paying attention

    Why 30% and not 5, 10 or even 90%+ like before? Simple, 90% takes us too far back to the dark old days, even if the punishment still isn't as detrimental overall, 100 damage glares or whatever are just going to make people feel bad and look needlessly silly when that's not the goal or what's needed here.

    Why not 5% like Cleric from Stormblood? Because you needed a parser to feel it's improvement. It was immensely unsatisfying and unworthwhile, at the time you'd see far bigger improvements from optimising movement and weave windows than paying any heed to SB Cleric.

    So why 30%? Simple, it's a big enough number to actually notice and feel without using a parser and is impactful enough to get the monkeh brain neurons firing but it's not big enough to actually make or break much of anything outside of perhaps newer ultimates and specific end of tier Savage fights (aka the likes of E8S where healers were expected to deal pretty significant damage thanks to far and few between healing checks).

    If we assume a dungeon run (Where healer DPS is typically at it's strongest) and everyone is playing to a similarly high standard, 30% of your healers DPS equates to 5-10% of the groups overall damage in an absolute worst case. At the other end of the spectrum, if we look at a random Extreme where the entire group except for 1 of the tanks landed on a grey log, that comes out to ~3-4% of the raids damage if we assume both healers would completely ignore this new Cleric and never even put it on their bars. Now note that this group still killed Endsinger in 9:37, enrage happens at 10:50 if I'm not mistaken. A full grey run where every single DPS was in single digits for percentile and they still cleared comfortably with over a minute to spare. So please don't come here with the seemingly inevitable 'Aaaahmagerd it'll stop people from getting clears' because that's just not true.

    Another thing to note is that this approach has plenty of avenues to expand on the concept. One that springs to mind: Using Misery under Cleric Stance adds an additional 20% damage dealt for your next 2 casts. Kit interactions, yay

    If it was implemented as part of a level cap raise, it wouldn't even need to feel like a flat out nerf to healer damage. How many people noticed that their fairy heals actually got significantly weaker as you levelled between expansions back in the day? SE can just quietly turn the dial down as healers level towards the next cap and most would be none the wiser.

    So what do you think? Personally as someone who was strongly against Cleric as a concept but isn't afraid to admit that it did at least add a level of excitement and pressure to healer gameplay that's arguably been sorely missing in more mainstream content, I'm quite happy with it. It's simple, it has a ton of room for expansion. It's not as make or break as old Cleric Stance was, but it's impactful enough that you'd be able to feel the difference without needing to parse.

    Some good suggestions and additions that are worth keeping in mind:

    Quote Originally Posted by Aravell View Post
    2) Wouldn't it be better to have a 1s recast native to Cleric Stance? One of the biggest problems Cleric Stance had back then was that you could immediately toggle it back on after turning it off, a 1s recast wouldn't hurt at all since you'd only turn it off to cast a GCD heal and every GCD heal already has a recast of 2.5s base (Eukrasia + Prognosis/Diagnosis is 1+1.5).
    Quote Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe View Post
    Rather than having the healing spell fizzle, wouldn't it be better to let it go through at 100% effectiveness, but cause Cleric Stance itself to fizzle and lock out for 10sec (or however long for balance)? That way, emergency healing with Cleric up doesn't get neutered at all, but it DOES prevent you from going back into Cleric as fast, costing you some damage. Floor is less affected by misplays (a 20% reduction at certain times may well be a death sentence, what with how spiky damage is at times), Ceiling is able to know when to turn Cleric off manually to prevent 'fizzles' and maintain optimal uptime of the buff
    (20)
    Last edited by Sebazy; 11-25-2023 at 06:27 AM.
    ~ WHM / badSCH / Snob ~ http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/871132/ ~