Which class fantasies of base classes do you like/miss?

[Lyth]

Secondhand embarrassment aside, I don't think that Final Fantasy is religious so much as it appropriates elements from different cultures and builds its own mythology off of them. It's not like Shiva and Lakshmi's additions to FFIV are there to invoke deliberate allegory to the Ramayana.

Either way, I think that FFIV hit on something very interesting with Dark Knight in particular. It would have been easy to construct them as a AD&D Antipaladin as a part-time evil Cleric, part time Fighter, but they didn't. They diverged away from a spellcasting aesthetic towards a gish sword-user that fires off waves of darkness from their weapon. There were forays into that on the Paladin side with the like of Shock, but I think the first game to properly unify the concept across dark and light was Final Fantasy Tactics.

I think the Ivalice raid series was what really reminded them of how popular the 'holy sword' concept was, which is why the likes of Confiteor started making their way into Paladin's kit in subsequent expansions.

The limitation in FFXIV's execution of the Paladin story likely comes down to the fact that none of the starting cities are particularly good fits for the aesthetic of a Knight Errant. That's probably why the Gladiator storyline was better and then it fell off when it was time to become a Paladin. Had the job been introduced after Ishgard was available, it would have been a different story, I suspect.

[Cleretic]

Secondhand embarrassment aside, I don't think that Final Fantasy is religious so much as it appropriates elements from different cultures and builds its own mythology off of them. It's not like Shiva and Lakshmi's additions to FFIV are there to invoke deliberate allegory to the Ramayana.

Yeah, there's just not really any inherent, ingrained religiosity in Final Fantasy as a series. If they've got something to say about a religion, they won't be subtle about it; they'll make that religion a core part of the setting and then say it LOUD, probably while having you fight either its Pope-equivalent or its Jesus-equivalent. Otherwise, FF more than basically any game series other than Megaten is about just appropriating and adapting real-world iconography to do their own thing. And hell, even Megaten shows more understanding that those symbols actually mean things.

The limitation in FFXIV's execution of the Paladin story likely comes down to the fact that none of the starting cities are particularly good fits for the aesthetic of a Knight Errant. That's probably why the Gladiator storyline was better and then it fell off when it was time to become a Paladin. Had the job been introduced after Ishgard was available, it would have been a different story, I suspect.

Honestly, I think the only part of Ul'dah that doesn't fit with the Paladin 'class fantasy' is that the paladin aesthetic just... fits a little oddly there.The conceptual and thematic trappings fit--the Ul'dahn Sultanate actually is the only throne you could plausibly pledge fealty to in the entire game world, and it's also religious enough to have that as an aspect if you truly think that's important (not necessarily a given even in Eorzea; Limsa's pretty agnostic on the day-to-day). In fact, it's also a really good fit for actually challenging the ideals of a knight like that; being a knight's all fine and dandy if the throne is strong and the kingdom is good, but Ul'dah's really not, and that's genuinely interesting. The only thing that doesn't work is that the Paladin aesthetic of heavy, white armor doesn't really track with the middle eastern-ish aesthetic of Ul'Dah, and while some side lore does its best to justify it (the armor's covered in reflective white cloth to make sure the sunlight doesn't turn the armor into an oven), it really just clashes. There's a reason that you don't see full plate in Arabian folklore.

[Enkidoh]

The reason for PLD being associated with Ul'dah was kind of out of necessity, given it was one of the original Jobs added late in 1.0's lifetime, and at the time, there was no player accessable location in Eorzea that fitted the traditional fantasy kingdom associated with knights in shining armour, other than Ishgard, and that was closed off and completely inaccessable in both 1.0 and ARR (they already stretched things by having DRG assocated with Ishgard in 1.0 but having the DRG trainer residing in an outlying hamlet in Coerthas).

Limsa is a thalassocracy with marines and pirates who wield guns and axes, and Gridania is a forest commune that relies solely on LNCs and ARCs for it's military. New Sharlayan was abandoned and inaccesable, and Ala Mhigo was a Garlean province sealed off from the rest of the continent.

Ul'dah was a monarchy, albeit a sultanate rather than a European style kingdom, so it was the closest they could fit a knight type Job, and hence PLD became the royal guard of the Sultan/Sultana, rather than a 'holy knight' beholden to a divinity or it's church (if you think about it, no matter what Job you really are, you're a 'holy warrior' in general already anyway, being the Warrior of Light, as champion to Hydaelyn and all.).

Accordingly, the player's character is still just a gladiator that has learned a few sword and shield skills from said royal guards and are basically a knight errant as an adventurer helping people and defending the helpless rather than a guardsman stuck patrolling the Hustings' Strip.

[LilimoLimomo]

I will always lament that Thief got swallowed up by Ninja. Thief and Ninja are both interesting enough to be their own classes, and Thief was my main in FF11...

[Denishia]

For me the part of the class fantasies I miss most is the specific lore aspect where these are the 9-5 day jobs of regular NPCs and not even exclusively martial at that (Yes, you can tell I was lured into playing XIV in part for the story/lore hype but also the assurance that the non-combat jobs were fleshed out). That Arcanists are just customs officials and Thamaturges are specialized funerary rite providers.

It's also a secondary element to why my most desired job to be added to XIV has been Blitzballer for years. That FFX was my gateway into the series is the main reason, but that it would be, at its root, a job that was retrofitted for combat but created as a team sport played among civilians. One in which Dancer and Blue Mage already took over some of the entertainment niches. And ideally it would have the ranged support I love in my combat main Bard. I don't miss Archer or begrudge the fact that any Archery MMO class needs another gimmick to combine with to add more unique animations for move sets; I just never use Performance. And I think that there needs to be a non-combat Bard/Troubadour NPC somewhere in some side quest so that there is the two schools more apparent than a line from Jehantel, like how there are plenty of catgirl dancers in Limsa and Ul'dah (and Stormblood's weaver quests) distinct from the Dancer combat job.

[Zero-ELEC]

All this talk about Ul'dahn knights makes me wish that we'd ever gotten an "immortal" job or something equally inspired by the Achaemenid Empire. Of course the Immortal Flames are already an organisation, but there's very little to associate them to Persia's historically dubious troops.

Anyways, on topic, I wish that astrologians had more time mage flavour, which they sorta lost over time.

[Gwenmyra]

I miss a few of the ones that felt like all their interesting flavor got buried in the new job flavor instead.
Rogues and their code was interesting and totally lost when you become a Ninja. Gladiator feels like it has no connection to Paladin other than "hey sword." Arcanist has this neat figuring out the odds and tactics that gets completely overshadowed by "Summoning big colorful things." It doesn't mean I don't like the new jobs I just miss that flavor and feel like they could have had interesting class specific stories that are lost and never told because the class only exists for thirty levels.

[kaynide]

This is gonna sound really really dumb, but I really don’t like the gathering/crafting …”fantasy”. I guess.

I get that new expansions need new materials, but it just doesn’t make sense why the old materials wouldn’t work.


Why is it if I want to make newest-fanciest-apple-pie I can’t just use common apples?

Why aren’t the newer ingredients more complex things? Like making spice packs. Or actually making a new alloy by mixing old metals with the new special ores?

I guess I’m just not excited for “uh, new world steel, but it’s purple now, and definitely different from common steel. Because it’s purple!”

I was always a fan of Guildwars 2, where the more complex crafting just uses a larger variety of base materials in new or interesting ways.

I get what they were going for…I guess I just wish it was more logical…and maybe more complex.

I wouldn’t be against something like making a high high level sword requiring 10 or so different crafted bits before actually getting the final product.

[diamondedge83]

Final Fantasy was originally heavily based off of Dungeons and Dragons wherein Paladins are not required to be religious and don't necessarily get their divine powers from a deity (though many players choose to do so). Paladin's get their divine powers from the dedication they show to the oaths that they make; no gods or religion required.

[Jandor]

Final Fantasy was originally heavily based off of Dungeons and Dragons wherein Paladins are not required to be religious and don't necessarily get their divine powers from a deity (though many players choose to do so). Paladin's get their divine powers from the dedication they show to the oaths that they make; no gods or religion required.

Pretty sure Paladins in the previous 4+ editions got their powers from the divine.

5E having oaths be the source of their power also feels like a bit of a slapped on afterthought to me, given that a lot of their toolkit still has divine right there in the name.